Rifleman Archive
Thread: DOTs a Bloody mess...
First off I'm new to this Forum so I wanted to say hello. I'm a Ranger / Rifleman / CH.
Ok, I have a few complaints here about the way Bleeds are working. As a budding Rifleman, Mindshot1 and Mindshot2 used to be my favorite toys. I'd pull up on a yellow con, drop a DOT or two, and keep my distance with traps and pets of varying types while dropping the occasional Headshot. Now that Conceal is working so much better I'm using it like crazy. I'm upset, though, that I can't use it in conjunction with a DOT.
Here's the deal. I think it essentially sums up my points. Last night I was on Naboo when I came across a Fambaa lair. I pull out one of my three pre-nerf t-21s, the one I only use on big game, and go take cover and go to town. After about 3-4 conceals I decide to throw in a mindshot (I've used headshot from cover several times and it's never broken my cover). Low and behold the Fambaa is oblivious. Then the bleed hits, and the Fambaa and his buddy are charging me. Long story short I'm incapped. Fambaa bleeds down to1 then begins to grief me. I stand up, it bleeds gets angry and lays me back out.
My Points:
Now... If I'm firing a bleed from a covered state. I don't think the act of bleeding should give up my position. It just doesn't make sense. "Oh look I'm bleeding. It must have come from 50m west." Similarly if the bleed is going to cause a creature to aggro it should be removed once the creature reaches 1pnt. There's no reason for it to keep bleeding if its not going to take damage.
Unrelated to this story:
If I can't incap/kill a creature with a bleed, then creatures shouldn't be able to incap/kill me with one. It gives the NPCs an unfair advantage in battle situations. They're attacks, the ones I share, are more powerful at the same levels.
Anyway. Loving my time with the Rifle, just thought I'd throw this out as a concern. I look forward to working with you all as I climb the long ladder to Master Sharpshooter.
-WB
Griefed by a Famba, lol sorry but that is to funny. Heh I healed an incapped player I came across yesterday and to my suprise a nearby snorbal jumped me and started to kick my unprepared arse.
Yeah bleeds are screwy now. I got action bleed by a mob and didn't notice until we got to the next mission when I attacked and died instantly. That will teach me to play bombed. I have lost my "screw you" ability the way it is now. No more bleeding people and knowing they will be incapped in pvp, even if I die.
Swiller wrote:
Heh I healed an incapped player I came across yesterday and to my suprise a nearby snorbal jumped me and started to kick my unprepared arse.
now that's funny.
i had something similar happen to me last weekend. was playing a guildmate's CM character in a factional dungeon.4 st's were engaged with another guildy, and i threw a ranged stim on him to heal him. it was a big hitter (1k+ pt heal), and THREE of the ST's came off him and attacked me.
i went down quick.
so, i appluaded the improved AI, but never imagined it would apply to critters. kind of scary, really.
The ONLY change to bleeds was removing the incap ability. A bleed shot has always aggroed on the first bleed tick, ALWAYS.
The one benefit from using cover is that it usually gives one free shot before the target aggros, this has never worked on a bleed tick. On occasion I have gotten 2 shots free, but not always.
Also, the incap removal does work on NPC attacks. Just remember that every hit does at least 1 pt of damage to every HAM, so if you are at 1 pt, the next hit of any kind is going to incap you.
Basically, i do not like the no incap change, but can adjust to work with it. It is what we do anyway, we adapt, we overcome.
I feel your pain, so to speak, but I find that I cannot agree with some of whatyou say. You said:
I don't think the act of bleeding should give up my position. It just doesn't make sense. "Oh look I'm bleeding. It must have come from 50m west."
I think the more valid question is, "How could I have shot a creature, causing enough damage to do hundreds of points of damage in a bleed, and the shot gone unnoticed to begin with?" From that perspective, I feel it is quite generous of the game mechanics to allow you to hit the creature with the bleeds initially and only allowing them to aggro when the damage starts occurring. But note that these "free" shots are a function of the fact that you get two or three shots free shots of any kindwhen you initiate combat with a creature for the first timeand you are prone and unnoticed at the time, not the fact that they are bleeds. This delay is intended, I believe, to represent the length of time it takes to figure out where the shot is coming from.
/Concealshot is the only shot in the game that can go completely unnoticed (though some report /Supriseshot seems to work the same way, while others disagree). The onlyexceptionsare if you miss twice orthe creaturedetects you by other means (e.g., in its normal movement, it may wander close enough to you to detect you). That, along with the HAM costs and slowcycle speed of the shot, balances the power of the fact thatwe can fire basically undetected with it.
So with that in mind, realize that you cannot mix Concealshot with bleeds and expect to remain undetected. That gives you a couple of choices. You can use Concealshot exclusively. Or you canuse the bleeds and get far enough away from the target so that it does not aggro on you when the bleeds hit . You then wait until the bleeds take them down to one point then hit it with a Headshot or a random pool shot (including a normal attack), basically any shot that is not a bleed and does not target a different HAM pool (e.g., Bodyshot). If it does aggro on you, use Headshots to speed the reduction of the mind pool and/or use Warningshot and Suppressionfire to keep the target away from you.
I am sorry this happened to you, but I think the mechanics are fine the way they are. Just keep in mind how things work.
By the way, you also said, "Now... If I'm firing a bleed from a covered state."
It is a common misconception that cover is some kind of camouflage that makes you harder to see. The descriptions of /Takecover indicate that it makes it harder to hit you, not see you. That is, it is a defensive bonus, not a detection bonus. Think in terms of ducking behind a log or a rock for extra protection, not in terms of becoming invisible.
Now, beingprone willgive you some extra protection against being detected right away, and you do have to be prone while taking cover. Thatmeans that you do get some benefit to detection from being in cover, but it comes from being prone, not from being under cover. Also, you can be in cover and be detected without cover being broken. Example, you are firing Concealshot while under cover and you misstwice. You will be detected, but your cover will not be broken. Finally, you can fire Concealshot (the shot that allows you to fire undetected) while under cover, but cover is not required for Concealshot. Except for the fact that you get better aim bonuses while prone, Concealshot works just as well whether you are prone, kneeling, or standing.
So being in cover does not add to your concealment from a perspective of being able to be detected, it adds to your concealment fromthe perspective of being able to be hit.
Maybe this little experiment will help. Next time you get incapped by something that you have not gotten to bleed, when you get up and are ready to go again, get back into range and try starting off with a bleed shot. Guess what? The target will immediately aggro on you. It will not wait until the bleed hits.
Again, the fact that that it does not normally respond when you initially hit it with a bleed shot is not due to the fact that it does not respond until the bleed hits. It is due to the fact that you always get between one and three free shots (depending on stance, range, etc.) before the creature figures out where the shot is coming from and reacts. The only exception to this is /Concealshot which, by itself, will not trigger an autoresponse until you miss twice.
And be assured, I do not consider what you are saying as complaining. Please do not consider what I am saying as criticism. I am just trying to help people understand what I understand the mechanics to be.
BTW, I should have mentioned in my last post that the "free" shots only count on the initial encounter before the creature has detected you and before you became a threat. That is why you do not get a free hit on the first shot after coming back after the incap.
I agree with Vopn's point, we learn to adapt and overcome. I've been doing it for months in the game. I very rarely complain about anything that gets handed down mostly because I enjoy being able to adapt.
These are really just some of my observations. I could understand if the bleed shot itself gave away my position, I just don't think it makes sense that the bleed action does.
I think it was Vopn who said that the first bleed always caused the crit to aggro. My point here was that EVERY bleed forced the aggro. That's why i got dropped right after coming out of an incapped state. The Fambaa had calmed down. Then bled and went nuts again.
Oh well. Like I said, they were more observations than real complaints. That is all...
-WB