Rifleman Archive

/sigh

I don't think the difference between 4 4 4 4 and master is THAT big. But it is 2 or 3 seconds for sure.

The disparity in damage per second amongst professions assumes that all Master Riflemen are using T21s? What about the non masters using Spraysticks, DLT20a's, E11s? You know, the ones that will be hitting that 3 sec speed cap at x x x 2 and 3?

I am not flaming, I just think that this whole DPS argument is flawed because is doesn't take in to account all the factors of combat in to consideration.

There is this pervading mentality that DPS is the be all and end all of combat, but since people aren't just standing in one spot with auto attack on.. It's all just verbal masturbation.

There isn't a 'specials delay mod' for autofire. The whole point of the delay mod is to determine the multiplier between autofire and the special.

Regular auto attacks have a Time Mod of 1.0 NOT 2.4, I have no idea where you got that number from...

In order to fall below the proposed 3s firing speed using a T21 with 7.5s listed speed, all you need is a speed mod over +60.A +61 speed mod will let you fire auto attacks at 2.92s intervals. So no, master rifleman are not really the only ones shafted.

Additionally, you fail to consider that the only timea rifleman becomes competitive/balanced is at master level, below that, they are at a VERY high disadvantage in dps over comparably advanced combat professions.

What you dont realise is that the only thing we have as a carrot for becoming master is that speed.. And if its nerfed, why should we then be riflemen at all? I know thats all I am looking forward to..

You're probably getting your numbers from the pistoleer FAQ. Look at the chart more carefully. The columns don't line up very well due to the non-fixed font. The first value in the 'delay' row is a 1, not 2.4 - the 2.4 is the DoubleTap delay mod, not 'normal fire'.

Ah ... I got the 2.4 number from mis-reading this post:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=pistoleer&message.id=7716

You're right that it affects non-Masters with autofire. So my analysis only works for specials ... which all have a Delay of 2.4 or higher.

Thanks for pointing that out.

You're right, by the way, that DPS isn't the only thing to consider. I'm just explaining how this single change works, that's all.

/double sigh.

Agree with the two previous posts who are riflemen...when I was a Novice, i had a DLT20a that has a speed of 3.2 and a spraystick at 1.1...are you saying that once the speed cap is in place at 3.0...it doesnt affect anyone beside Masters???

Again, the original post is from a non rifleman, please just walk in our shoes fer bit andTHEN tell us what you think...

Urikl D'evrak

Master Rifleman

Gorath Server

"You're right, by the way, that DPS isn't the only thing to consider. I'm just explaining how this single change works, that's all."

Thank You

I just hate seeing all of these "class comparisons". They are all slanted, sloped, and shaped to fit each of our point's of view. Pistoleers are guilty of it, Riflemen are guilty of it, Bounty Hunters... Now that you mention it, I don't see anyone complaining about Carbines.. We need to fix that. Someone go to the Carbineer board and tell them that they are eliminating all of their state effect attacks in the next patch at the request of the Chef Correspondant... That would be funny.

I hate petitions as well.

And I hate hangovers.. I really hate hangovers... I hate being hungover at work... Uh, sorry. Wrong forum.

From the looks of it speed was put in to counter balance special move costs....

But because of the formula it ended up unbalancing everything....

Why not just cap each weapon based on its base speed....IE

Weapon speed=(weapon speed*special move mod)-(weapons speed*special move mod)*speed/100

If weapons speed<50% of based weapon speed then weapon speed =50% of base...

This makes weapons balancable, and also makes speed slicing actually worth while ...

Of course the 50% number is off the top of my head, it could be anything from 30% to any number, whatever would bring balance to the DPS numbers .

I agree with you. The dev proposal to fix the infinite speed problem by capping the weapon speed doesn't work. What I don't understand is why fight it by calling for nerf to aspect of the game.

Fight the weapon speed cap head-on. Just show the dev the number that rifleman hit the speed cap too soon and no amount of damage compensation will make up for that.

If dev response is, too bad, use slower weapon or special move, then the fight would be the HAM cost for special is prohibitive and not healable during combat, making it unpractical to use special move. So if then they must either lower the HAM cost and/or make mind healable during combat. Both of these the dev said they are looking into.

So fight the weapon speed cap. If that doesn't go through, fight for decreased HAM cost/mind healable.

But please, please, don't gimped other profession.

If the problem is speed, fight the speed.

If the problem is accuracy, fight the accuracy.

But don't call for gimping other profession to "balance" them with your favorite profession.

As a FYI, most the dev post make it sound like they wouldn't care less about DPS and they're not big on it. They only way you'll make them listen is not by throwing more DPS number at them, but run some simulation (if you're so inclined) which show that a rifleman vs pistoleer will lose 90%. Balance mean losing only 50%. This will get them to listen more.

"I hate this stupid, stupid star system."

I do too.

Every "one star" post

I think you pistoliers know that you have an advantage and HATE that others wantto be balanced, its human nature i understand... You atm shoot well far and close with your accuracy bonuses in specials. You have an easier time leveling because of lower level dps of pistols. Have better weapons because of the kyat(sp?) tissues. Easier time getting warning shots off, guess that goes in easier time leveling...

What do rifleman get?

Low level rifleman havethe lowest dps in the game to make leveling a rifleman SLOW!!! VERY small optimum range to hit even at master, anything under 30 is hard to hit.Meaning that once anyonegets under 45m we = dead in PvP or PvE.We also have a melee 2.5 dmg penalty that hits HARD. HAM costs are not healable which is the riflemans main disability. We have a HORRIBLE accuracy modifiers to all our specials, SS2 has a negative bonus LOL. Im telling younow, rifleman cant run and gun effectivly, so if it comes down in pvp to kiting the pistol will win. Whats next.... APis broken.

Now why would someone pick rifleman if it has such HUGE problems? Its because there are NO dabblers to rifleman. Meaning that almost all rifleman achive for master rifleman. So when you nerf master rifleman you nerf ALL rifleman. Master rifleman was the saving grace of the rifleman, the whole point of being one was to have HUGE DPS for short amounts of time, unlike pistoliers whohave high dps for eternity using stim b's.

By nerfing rifleman speed we have lost our ability to effectively fight as equils. It was equil because rifleman was limited by non healable HAM costs...This is why most rifleman now want pistols specials acuracy bonus nerfed sopast 32m pistols would sucklike riflemansuck under 32. Of course this only works if we also have some of our dps back from the nerfing of our speed, should be 3 times but that will never happen. If pistols cant shoot at 60m they will run into under 32 in like 2 seconds and rifleman cant kite because of our low moving accuracy bonus, so if it turns into a kite the pistolier will win and should win. So we need some of our dps and FAR suprerior accuracy up range to compinsate the loss of the speed.

So if the speed goes into place then we NEED to be the master of range. That means nerfing pistols who atm aremasters of short, medium and long range to what they were meant to be, jsut short.

BTW if you pistoliers want to keep your accuracy then we should keep our speed since both abilities are class distinctions that have warped over time. We shouldnt be hypocrites now should we...

Philosopher those numbers cannot be accurate. I am a master rifleman, I have a T21 that fires at exactly the 7.5 reload you speak of, and I fire its auto attacks at the speed cap. Here's a 100% legit combat log, if you need further proof I can take screenies or you can create a new character in my galaxy and come watch.

[Combat] 04:19:14 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 637 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:15 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 577 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:16 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 667 points of damage. [Combat] 04:19:17 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 535 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:18 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 448 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:19 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 333 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:21 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 406 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:21 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 692 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:22 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 622 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:23 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 331 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:24 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 724 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:25 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 478 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:26 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 329 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:27 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 340 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:28 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 414 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:30 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 444 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:30 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 713 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:31 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 496 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:32 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 663 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:33 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 642 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:34 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 721 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:35 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 705 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:37 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 523 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:38 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 345 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:38 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 664 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:39 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 741 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:40 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 378 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:41 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 386 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:42 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 600 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:43 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 651 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:45 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 542 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:46 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 549 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:46 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 740 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:47 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 694 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:48 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 346 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:49 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 429 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:51 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 619 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:52 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 506 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:53 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 715 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:53 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 433 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:54 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 688 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:55 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 327 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:56 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 372 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:57 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 531 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:19:58 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 670 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:20:00 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 640 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:20:01 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 731 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:20:01 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 716 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:20:03 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 749 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:20:04 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 737 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:20:04 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 382 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:20:05 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 669 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:20:06 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 638 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:20:08 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 596 points of damage.
[Spatial] 04:20:08 You stand up.
[Combat] 04:20:08 You stand up.
[Combat] 04:20:08 You stand up.
[Combat] 04:20:09 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 394 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:20:10 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 635 points of damage.
[Combat] 04:20:10 You shoot at an Imperial stormtrooper camp and hit for 730 points of damage.

What's interesting to me is the inconsistent shots that occured under 1 second. It seems to start out firing at 0.9, breaking the speed cap which is supposedly unbreakable. Weird, probably a latency thing.