Rifleman Archive

Thread: Differences in Shot specials?

Azhara
Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:37 pm
#1

Hiya Folks, in currently a 4333 Rifleman and usually just Headshot 3 my PVE opponents down.


Recently, however, i have been able to use the flushingshot and Strafeshot techniques, and ive been wondering about them. Through their in-game descriptions at least, there seems to be no reason to use both, as one stuns an opponents and the other both startles and stuns the opponent.


Am i missing an overall purpose in the differences between them? is there a higher damage to the one that only does a single effect or does uit perchance have an increased chance for the effect to land or whatnot? Because as is i don't think id ever use that one (sorry i cant use the name but i havent been able to log in for a while and i can't exactly remember which one is which)


Also, why does Strafeshot 2 seem to be everyones favorite shot at master? I know its an area effect shot, which is always nice for large crowds, but isnt its effect focused on getting people out of cover, which is almost never used anyways? Does it have a noticeably higher damage multiplier over the others or anything? Is there any reason for me to use Strafeshot1 now that im 4333 and can use other single target shots such as the mind targeting shots, flushingshot, startleshot and flurryshot?


any information you could fling my way woul;d be greatl;y appreciated =-)
HARP00N
Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:49 pm
#2

flushing shot 1 isn't really good unless you want to have a good chance of hitting their health.


Flushing shot 2 is where its at: area of effect so you can hit lots of targets at once if they are all in combat, drains less mind than headshot3, and has a higher damage multiplier. Plus it hits random pools so it hits health about 60% of the time, so its usefull in groups where u want to hit the pool everyone else is hitting to bring the mob down faster. And flushing shot 1 and 2 both stun, theres no such thing as "startle"


and yes, strafeshot1 isn't really good if you have flushing shot 2. And people make such a big deal out of strafesho2 cuz its the highest damaging rifle special... 5x multiplier, so u can be doing 4000 damage in pvp with an OK gun. If someone has low health or action best bet is to hit them with strafeshot 2 and it will most likely hit those pools since its a random pool speical (random pool speicals hit mind only rarely).. even with 75% pvp reduction it does a lot of damage.

Azhara
Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:54 pm
#3

Aye but whats im really confused about is the difference between FlushingShot and StartleShot:


Flushing Shot1 D x2.0 T x2.1 M x5 Stun + Raises posture
Flushing Shot2 D x4.0 T x2.6 M x6 (AE) Stun + Raises posture

vs

Startle Shot1 D x2.0 T x2.1 M x5
Startle Shot2 D x4.0 T x2.6 M x6 (AE) Raises posture (Broken?)


Now, i don't know how old this information is so im unsure as to if StartleShot 2 is broken or anything, but it seems to me that There is no real purpose for StartleShot when you can just as easily use flushingshot. Unless new information has come to surface or im reading this very wrong, there doesnt seem to be any situation where one would not just use Flushingshot over StartleShot, for even if the target is alreadt standing, nothing negative would come of it.


The only justification i can think of is Maybe Flushingshot needs to take resistances to both posture up and stun into account, and maybe if the MOB/Person resists one, both effects are negated. Or Perhaps StartleShot has an 85% (completely fictional number) chance to raise posture whereas FlushingShot only has a 25% (another random number) chance to raise it.


This is my true question, the difference in Usefullness between FlushingShot and StartleShot, for i have more than enough weapons specials medpacks etc to fill up 24 slots in a heartbeat, so i want to make sure i don't waste slots on skuills are that wouldn't be benifical to myself or my Party.


If one of you more elder rifleman/riflewomen could enlighten me i would be quite grateful
Sotaudi
Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:32 pm
#4

That is a question that has been asked over and over again on these boards, and I doubt the question has been answered satisfactorily since the Devs have never commented.However, I think we can make a reasonable guess knowing how things work in the game. Except for the fact that Flushingshot stuns while Startleshot does not, all other aspects of the shots seem to be the same. This is odd to us because, the higher in the tree you go, you expect the shots to be more effective. And for both versions, Startleshot comes after Flushingshot. Since Startleshot gives up a chance to Stun yet comes after Flushingshot in the tree, I conclude that this means that the posture change effect for Startleshot is more effective than the one for Flushingshot. That is, while Flushingshot has a chance to Stun and to Raise posture, you are more likely to get a raise in posture if you use Startleshot than if you use Flushingshot since, other than damage, that is all Startleshot is designed to do.


I have no proof of this. It is just what I would expect to see given what else we see in the game.





Sotaudi Crestlighter
Master Rifleman / Master Combat Medic
"The Physician's Pain Reference"

Former Professions
Master Doctor | Master Swordsman | Master Brawler
Master Scout | Ranger



HARP00N
Sun Mar 07, 2004 7:58 pm
#5

yes, flushing shot 2 is better than startle shot 2. Stun is a good state change. Raising posture is useless, unless an NPC goes prone and you dont have any boxes in Sniping Accuracy so its harder for you to hit them because of the accuracy penalty against prone targets... but then again why would you be getting counter-sniping4 if you dont have any boxes in sniping accuracy, you should max your sniping accuracy tree as soon as you get counter-sniping 3. And if the NPC goes prone, it would be more effective to hit them with a Flurry Shot so they get dizzy and fall down if they stand up (like if you move out of their range they will get up and try to chase you, then fall down, but you cant make them fall down if you force their posture change)... and if they are able to resist the dizzy state change, then they sure as hell will be able to resist a posture change.
SpyBotNe1
Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:58 am
#6

Basically Startling SHot 2 is for NPC lairs that return Fire (non melee types), you would use Flurry shot 2 a few times make sure the Dizzy sticks then Uses Startle SHot 2 to make em all stand to start the Dizzy KD minus this sole type of situation startle shot 2 or 1 is completly useless in my experience
kirstar
Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:47 am
#7

huh?


for some reason I cant understand any of that.


I know its english, I read it, but nope, NO comprehension.


can you guys put it in BLOND for me ?



-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)
INTREPID - HABRAX STARSTEEL - RIFLEMAN / DOCTOR
-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)-(.)
Sotaudi
Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:29 pm
#8






kirstar wrote:

huh?


for some reason I cant understand any of that.


I know its english, I read it, but nope, NO comprehension.


can you guys put it in BLOND for me ?






Use Flushingshot.



Sotaudi Crestlighter
Master Rifleman / Master Combat Medic
"The Physician's Pain Reference"

Former Professions
Master Doctor | Master Swordsman | Master Brawler
Master Scout | Ranger



Sotaudi
Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:58 pm
#9






Sotaudi wrote:





kirstar wrote:

huh?


for some reason I cant understand any of that.


I know its english, I read it, but nope, NO comprehension.


can you guys put it in BLOND for me ?






Use Flushingshot.




Okay, that is the truth of it, but here is what I believe the idea behind all of this is. Take a look at what our shots do (ignoring differences in damage):


Strafeshot: Removes the target's cover state


Flushingshot: Stun and raise posture


Flurryshot: Dizzy


Startleshot: Raise Posture


Then take the effects of posture and cover:


Cover: Adds to ranged defenses.


The lower your posture, the higher the ranged defenses, but the lower the melee defenses.


So from this I think we can conclude that the idea behind the rifleman state changes is to get other riflemen out of cover and raise the posture and lower the defenses of any ranged profession. And use Dizzy to keep them from changing it back. So ideal scenario would be:


You encouter a rifleman, you both go prone and under cover. You fire Strafeshot to remove their cover (now they are like any ranged profession that is prone). You fire Flushingshot to stun them and raise their posture (both lower ranged defenses). They are now kneeling. You hit them with Flurryshot to dizzy them, and hit them with Startleshot to raise their posture further, further lowering their defenses and possibly triggering a voluntary posture change to get lower and safer again, which could create a KD. Now, you are prone and in cover (your best ranged defense state) and they are standing and unable to lower posture or they are dizzy/KDed. Both of which give them the lowest ranged defenses and, if KDed, extra damage.


The only thing is, you will probably never see this scenario. In PvP, almost no one goes prone because the likelihood of getting set upon by a melee profession who only has to cover 64m (often less) is too great. Also, cover takes too many tries to stick and uses HAM which cannot be healed while in cover. So no riflemen go in cover even if they do try to go prone. Therefore, Strafeshot's effect (removing cover) is worthless as is Flushingshot and Startleshot's posture changes since virutally no one goes prone anyway. Because of this, the Dizzy does little to help us as well since, if they want to be standing, they are not going to change posture anyway. Also, you cannot move them from prone to kneeling with one shot and then from kneeling to standing with the same shot or another, because they nerfed posture changes to keep people from spamming SuppressionFire or other posture down attacks to keep people stuck in place.


Therefore, I still believe that Startleshot's posture change is probably more effective than is Flushingshot, but either way, so what? The likelihood of a forced posture change up is remote at best.


Therefore, there is no real reason to use Startleshot. Use Flushingshot for the same damage and a chance to lower their defenses with Stun.



Sotaudi Crestlighter
Master Rifleman / Master Combat Medic
"The Physician's Pain Reference"

Former Professions
Master Doctor | Master Swordsman | Master Brawler
Master Scout | Ranger



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