Rifleman Archive

Well here it is, the first half everyones already seen I know, but I finally got around to finishing this up, and would love some more opinions on what's inside, or anything I missed added. Cause I know I for one am sick of this myth about riflemen being unstoppablemind damage gods (and Bh's giving us a bad name but that's still another issue) Anyway If you think I should cross post it in general let me know.

And selfyn sorry for stealing the sig but it's too cute it had to go in ^_^

-----

First off I'm going to keep this from turning into another "my class sucks" whine post, that's pointless and not needed we all know it. Or whine that I'm more important then everyone else and need help noooow (/veruca salt voice) cause lord knows I agree with the issues other classes are having (specially the DE's and the SL's) But what I am going to do is try to point out as someone who's gone for riflemen since I bought the game why I'm becoming quite disillusioned with the class in general, as a disatisfied customer why I'm seriously considering not renewing my subscription when the first 3 months are up thanks to these problems, and hopefully a few suggestions on how to fix things so you guys and SOE can keep my $15 a month still.

first off a link that sums up a lot of issues.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=rifleman&message.id=12286

Though I didn't post in that topic I share many of the sentiments in it, and figured it should be posted here in the hope it's got a better chance of being read by a dev.

As it stands now riflemen, through issues with our own class and skills, and general content bugs that still aren't resolved are rapidily working there way up to winning the award of "Best new pre patch commando class."

Combat wise we can solo...provided that the mob does not.

#1 Bring friends: the 2.5 melee means even 2 of the thugs outside most towns will 90% of the time incap a rifleman if they run at him, now make it a lair of gurrcats/ slice hounds / mountian ikopi's / heck even the rasps on talus and a rifleman is incapped, end of discussion, no two ways about it. No other ranged class has this problem, so why do we? And I'd like a better explation then it's cause we hit mind, if that's the case I'm waiting for pistol BH's and combat medics to get it as well. As it stands unless we take the time to conceal shot yellow-red cons (and pray they don't spot us) Rifle xp is an absolute chore to get given our limited choices in mobs we can hunt and xp they give.

#2 Run right at us, and we in turn run from it: When you combine the new "run and gun" accuracy mods, with the fact that at any range below 40m a rifle has almost nil chance to hit once that mob notices us it had better be bleeding to death cause if we have to run (thanks to the 2.5 melee) as it closes into point blank range there's almost no chance of us getting in one last shot before we're incapped. And thanks to the changes to both dizzy and supression fire we can't keep mobs off us anywhere near as well as before either.

http://webpages.charter.net/bennyboy4308/ss1.jpg

Counter: "And warning shot?"

My response: And watching the mob run to 140m, bleed to death, then not get any xp for it? Or how bout trying to chase it across lok though it's friends? Or watching the 1 warning shot we might get miss thanks to accuracy mods? It's a last resort move nothing more.

#3 Warp: General issue I know but again thanks to 2.5 melee if it happens we may as well just stand there and wait to die since by the time burst run kicks in after a 4-7 rifle shot lag we're already dead.

#4 Try to use specials or even auto attack at all: Whatever the last patch did to accuracy it has become so bad for us that even people who have been master riflemen for awhile now are beginning to notice problems hitting.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=rifleman&message.id=12389

Counter: "But rifle's are way overpowered so when you hit we're dead!"

My response: #1 If we hit that is. think about how long the average PvP situation lasts, riflemen on average get maybe 2 shots pre master a couple more post master before someone notices us, If those shots don't connect, and someone decides to burst run in our face, again we're history thanks to accuracy mods and attack speed for anyone short of master riflemen. #2 I'm 2-1-2-1 almost 2-1-3-2 in riflemen now, and NOT ONCE has my glorified laser rifle err I mean new T21 ever one shot killed anything but light blue con imp npcs, and that was with a flurry shot that capped at 1800 in pve and just above 2000 with a 32% max damage powerup. So to those people who were whining about overpowered rifles (And I'll wager had 400 mind bars) I'd love to know where I can get one of those, becuase the rifles on Valcyn don't hold a candle to the ones shooting at you apparently. On average It takes me 3-4 headshot3's and most of my mind bar to drop a single target, and in the time between that first shot and the second I can see a BH hit me with eyeshot 5 times for 300% of the damage, not counting the 140 ham hit i just gave myself.

#5 Be the last one we're trying to headshot: I have a 950 mind bar after reducing health and action to 800 (may as well have since if I get hit I die anyway), headshot3 with my vaunted and "overpowered" T21 takes 140 mind, it takes 1-3 headshots to kill BLUE CONS on average for me. So killing 2-4 blue cons for a just over 1000 rifle xp at best and a piddly amount of the combat xp we need for more speed in a couple minutes means on average I'm sitting for 5 minutes even with rations boosting willpower to get my mind back.

Now equate that into PvP and imagine how long A riflemen is going to be in any fight with damage reduction and your oh so grand T21's

Counter: "Well why don't you just go buy muon golds and shoot all day long? Or use a laser rifle it's faster and has lower HAM?"

My response: #1 The day that muon gold prices come down to the costs of stim B's every other class can use to heal much lower ham costs (not counting certain carbine specials or the melee knockdowns) will be the day I might think about doing so, of course even then we still are suffering in built in downtimes anyway. #2 why should riflemen be the only ranged combat class that has to rely on such a thing when it's merely an option for pistol and carbine users? I don't have hordes of credits to burn buying muon gold crates left and right, even more so after the double whammy of less mission payouts and the slashing of ranger harvests (but that's an issue for another post) and #3 Guess what? since the T21 is a joke most riflemen do use the laser mainly, A T21 for the first big shot sometimes, and on occasion a dlt20a for the even faster speed and decent min damage compared to laser. Name one other combat class that has to keep 3 guns hotkeyed to be effective please, 2 of which are gotten on the low end of the marksmen tree.

New player: Hey how'd you do that?

Me: hit that rot mite for 1500?

New player: No turn your mind bar white!

#6 Attempt to wear armor: Most Riflepersons will have Mind/Focus/Willpower maxxed or just about do at the expense of other (generally secondary) stats to cope with the cost of special moves. To recover as quickly as possible since medics can't get us fixed up and ready to fight again makes it tough for us to wear any armour or hotkey switch constantly. And the secondary stat cost for helmets is the highest, squarely hurting Riflepersons more than any other profession. We eat enough mind as it is, anything else that tacks more on is total overkill.

And we can group, but...

#1 Damage output is still sub par compared to other classes in a damage = xp system: This is STILL an issue holding us pre master riflemen back. We get on average 1 shot auto attack to every 3-4 a pistol / carbine user is getting at lower lvl's pre master speed mods. And when you throw on top of that now the new LLC and the commando weapons our ability to damage random bars with auto attack or our other random HAM specials just can't hold a candle to them. And again that's if we even hit thanks to the accuracy issues we're having. This is not a call to nerf or a flame to the other classes, it's just the simple truth as it stands right now. And with ham costs even if we're using strafe2 flushing2 and flurry2 we're the ones sitting and waiting on mind while the others stim up and keep killing.

#2 A group even wants us to come along: So you're heading out to go play around of squill bashing outside town, and you get everyone together, and how many groups are actually going to want to bring along the guy who will die in two hits if he gets aggro, as stated above can't hold a candle to the other classes damage output, and pre area attacks and master uses an entierly different set of moves to hit a different bar? And if we do die name how many groups are really going to be waiting around for the riflemen to hike back, and that's just a 1-2k hike from town, if you're the first to die at fort tusken when a warlord decides to 1 shot you for 1000+ you're better off just finding another group (heh) or going solo and putting up with the above problems then attempting the walk back by yourself.

#3 Finding a group in the first place.

Number of people I see with lfg tags in a day: 0

Number of people I see shouting about groups counting myself in the last 2 weeks: 2

Number of groups I've been with in the last 2 weeks: 1

Number of groups that accomplish anything: 0

Number of people probably powerlving like mad and would rather solo then waste their time to try and form a group: To make a guess 80% of the players playing.

#4 We aren't casual players: I'm in college, I get maybe 3-4 hours a day weekdays to play now, I do not want to spend 30 mins looking for a group, 15 mins trying to prepare that group to go out, 15 more waiting for the guy who someone in the group says "will be here in just one second." 15 more going to wherever it is we're hunting with said group. Then maybe 1-2 hours of fighting provided that someone doesn't die, a freak incident *coughwarpingcough* wipes the group and we're sitting healing for 20 mins more, a bad pull makes us camp for 5-10 healing off the damage if we couldn't find a medic or I need to heal mind. Etc etc etc

And we can PvP provided

#1 We don't run into anyone with a pistol: Holo...devs...look at accuracy. Pistols may have a -50 long range mod but when you stack the pistol mods, specially everyones favorite pistol mods on BH pistol skills the accuracy mods are so high that they can, will, and ARE hitting at any range from 64 to 0 without breaking a sweat. Range mods or no pistols higher rate of fire and higher dps more then make up for any misses they might have at long range (and name one player with one that stays at 60m for the rifleman) whereas if we miss, we're running thanks to lag time between shots. And as stated above it's a BH with a scatter pistol and eyeshot.

New player: How do I become a better rifleman?

Me: Just take bounty pistol skills you'll do fine kid.

To all those arguing over mind damage, ask yourself and take a survey, was it a bh or a riflemen that did it? Given the bh to rifleman population no prizes for guessing who is going to win that one.

#2 We don't run into the currently bugged melee heavy weapons: Please fix this, and for the love of god don't as any kind of trade off give commandos the god awful 2.5 melee we have FOR ANY REASON! This should be gone period.

#3 We don't try to use what's left of our skills: Flurry is broken devs, I've watched multiple npcs go from prone to standing WHILE DIZZY and that's of the dizzy doesn't last more then the 5 seconds it does compared to 20-30 before. When you add the supression nerf where it doesn't even work 50% of the time now and then we have to wait thirty seconds after a failed attempt to try again...Thank you you've removed and destroyed the one ability riflemen had to try and keep range besides running like little girls. I'm sure at least a couple of the other classes specially the melee ones will agree that either making the downtime 15 seconds or at least giving them a decent success rate to hit would go a long ways to fixing that issue.

Surprise, conceal, cover? I'd love to see any of these work right for starters. It defies any kind of rational logic that when we use conceal a mob stands there stupid while his 3 friends run (or warp) at me. And why don't any of these even have the slightest pvp application? If nothing else let us use conceal so if it hits we aren't auto attacked right off.

And I know I'm going to catch holy **** for this one, but many good proposals about giving riflemen some kind of ability to hide from the radar (Remind us again how we can be snipers when every player has one?) have been voiced in the rifleman fourm, any kind of input would be appreciated.

#4 We run into any player with a CL15 pet: Here's my story of the day, I'm sitting beside a destroy mission after killing the imps around it, then I suddenly notice half my health is gone, spin about, and see a CL15 panther knawing on my leg from out of nowhere (I can't verify he warped on me, but as I've seen my faction troopers do so I would not be surprised) and two imps running at me shooting. I hit the burst run button, hightail it out, and once I'm safe go back and check the combat log, to find that the body shot using imps missed around half their shots, and hit me for a few double digit pops, then I see it.

"Fluffy has hit you for 431 damage"

A pet, a single CL15 pet, in ONE HIT caused more damage to me then a barrage of gunfire from two imperial players, and took out half my health in, and let me say it again cause it needs to be said ONE HIT.

Congrats, thanks to your pandering about every player wanting all the CH skills without any of the work any riflemen can be killed in pvp by a player with enough credits to buy a warping gurreck.

I can't stress this next point enough. Do not mess with the CH's anymore they've had enough problems but please if you aren't a CH YOU SHOULD NOT OWN A PET YOU HAVE NO ABILITY TO CONTROL YOURSELF!

Do us and in turn the DE's a favor here, get rid of any combat ability these non ch player pets have, I'm fine to leave them as mounts, and make us buy a decent and not nerfed to oblivion probot if we non ch players want a tank. Either that or again get rid of the 2.5 melee cause here's yet another example of it murdering us.

#5 We don't step within 16m of an LLC: I was not here for the previous T21 debate, but from what I heard the devs were somehow utterly terrified that a T21 rifle could exceed 3000 damage. So it got nerfed ok fine. But if that's the case then why in the world do BH's get a gun pre sliced that shoots for half the speed of the T21, has a higher min damage then a T21's max by a good 40-50 points, no range mods to the T21's -70 at point blank, and has been reported to be doing double the damage with specials of PRE PATCH T21's in PvP??? Note despite my dislike of them this one is not another BH flame, this is me just wondering how such a giant contradiction got into the game without someone thinking about it.

Counter: "Why not run away again? You seem good at it after all."

Me: *points at burst run button* We get one shot, they hit burst run, we're toast and that's that.

#6 Try to use our again "oh so grand" AR3 gun when AR is STILL meaningless: This one is the only reason I'm overly leery about upping rifle damage. Though I think that across the board all rifles do need a minor increase in min damage if not max to compete. (Please explain why any pistol can have higher min damages along with that rof then most rifles?) I've seen crafted Dh17 carbines (novice marksmen skill) Have stats that were better then an E11 rifle the same player made (Rifle specialist skill) This is just flat out idiotic and is gimping riflemen further. So if we can't get a bone thrown on damage please finally fix armor piercing. It makes no sense someone in clothes is taking less damage from an AR3 gun then someone actually in armor.

Bah they can't even run a message board, what hope is there for the game. (Yes I just lost yet another post.)

It's a good post, with valid points for non master riflemen, which are SO underpowered compared to other classes. The only point against it, is that I doubt it will be read by any of the Devs.

I took my sig from someone elses post on this board (sorry forgot who it was), as I thought it was funny but also true.

The sig came from one of my notes, Seflyn(it wasnt originally a signature),and that's why I was curious if it was the same one. Thanks for thinking its funny. Every now and then I come up witha good one among the garbage. The new"bendover" position for riflemen you used to use was mine too... Guess we have the same sick mind....

Hehe yep I used to use that one as well, I like the funny but true ones the best, they make a point and get a laugh.

Your new one is quite nice, although it kind of makes me cringe because of the amount of times it happens to me.

Hey, you brought up just about every major issue we have and all in one post .Nice job and good points

You should really repost this on the Development forum too. Holo or someone might actually see it there. Great post - well done.

I've been an apprentice sharpshooter for awhile, and get far better results from my Pistol 3and Carbine 3 than I do from rifles. This profession has really bad problems. It is essentially only a fetish now, because nothing that we do resembles the real role of a sniper. I have a lot of IRL firearms experience, and the only thing I can say about the Devs is that they have none.

1. A person running in a straight line towards a prone rifleman imposes a -50 accuracy penalty...HUH?! All they are is a rapidly growing target.

2. Range...64 meters....Whatever. This is ridiculous. The point about pistol mods cannot be emphasised enough. Cumulative mods take the long-range functional accuracy of pistols way beyond a rifleman's. And rifles DO NOT EVER become less accurate at shorter ranges. Pistols and other firearms suffer accuracy penalties IRL at long ranges because of a number of factors. A rifleman from 20 to 65 meters should be firing at nearly 100% accuracy. THE ONLY PENALTY SHOULD BE TIME!

3. Warping mobs. Once again, a Wookiee sharpshooter is incapped by clipped fynocks...ugh.

4. Initial shot delay. What the heck is this? The first shot needs to go off instantly. Mobs are turning around as soon as I choose to attack, running towards me, and by the time the shot goes off they are at point blank range. Why is there a delay before the first shot goes off? Takecover and aim should account for all the intial preparation. And why are creatures noticing that I'm THINKING about attacking them?!

Kudos. True on all points.

-Logoseen Ospooro
Abandon All Hope, All Ye Who Enter.
Ok, at least some hope. Fine, just a little. I mean, c'mon.

best post ever....

just send this off as our class issues to the devs.

"Initial shot delay. What the heck is this? The first shot needs to go off instantly. Mobs are turning around as soon as I choose to attack, running towards me, and by the time the shot goes off they are at point blank range. Why is there a delay before the first shot goes off? Takecover and aim should account for all the intial preparation. And why are creatures noticing that I'm THINKING about attacking them?!"

The animation may not be playing for the initial shot, but check your combat pane to see if you are in fact shooting.

I have noticed this as well, but it was just that the animation wasnt playing.