Rifleman Archive
Thread: Rifleman FAQ v1.93
Waste93 wrote:
[snip]
I'mfairly positive on the shot count. Though I don't think it has much to do with ConcealShot as much as it does with the attacks you can do without getting detected from prone. When firing prone with a normal shot you get detected on the third hit. What I think happens is that the first two misses count against the two freebies you get for being prone. Not against the ConcealShot counter. So when you miss the third time that is the first ConcealShot miss it auto detects and it aggros. So the target really aggros on the first missed ConcealShot. However your posture gives you a couple freebies. One for Kneeling (so you aggro on the second miss) and two for prone.
Just made Novice Rifleman on TC so I'll be able to testit so more once I get ConcealShot.
[snip]
It would make sense that way. That is, that the miss is counted like a non-Concealshot. I would expect, then, that it is a more complex issue than just a number of missed shots. For instance, before I was a Master Rifleman, three (non-Concealshot) shotswas about average for about how long it would take for the creature to aggro on me if I was prone and at the appropriate range. Early on, it was only about 2 shots and, somewhere before Master, it got to be about 3 or 4 shots. However, now that I am a Master Rifleman, I get at least 6 free shots before they aggro on me. In fact, with my DXR6b with a speed powerup and a 91 speed mod, I can often kill Enraged rancors using Headshot3 without getting aggroed.
That tells me that there is a time component to the formula more than just a set number of shots. In other words, I think what happens is that it starts a timer when you shoot it with the first shot. If you are still shooting it after the timer runs out, you will get aggroed. That would make sense becausein the time it takes a Novice Rifleman to shoot twice, in many instances, a Master Rifleman can get off 6 or more shots depending on the rifle speeds and specials used.
If this is the case and if Concealshot worked as you have suggested, it may be that you will find that the miss count will vary depending on when you miss. For instance, if you miss twice in a row, you will probably geta third miss before they aggro. But if you miss, then do not miss for a while, you may only get two misses because you have exceeded the timer I have suggested is involved.
It would probably take an enormous amount of data to confirm this either way because of the way Concealshotworks. But like we know that objects traveling near the speed of light do not behave as predicted by Newtonian physics, for all practical purposes, Newtonian physics works just fine for "everyday" use, so to speak.Likewise, it may be that there is a timer involved, but for Concealshot, just assuming that you have a specific number of shots may be the most practical way to look at it.
One of the questions commonly asked on this board is what are the Rifleman specials and what do they do. Here is something the help out in that regard. Specials are listed alphabetically.
Here is a list of the Riflmen specials from Rifleman and Marksman. They are accurate in description to the best of my knowledge. If you find an error let me know and I will correct it.
FAQ : What are the Rifleman specials and what do they do?
Conceal Shot – Rifleman Concealment I : An attack that allows you to attack targets in PvE without being detected and attacked. The target can still detect you normally by coming close to you or if you miss a certain number of times. If standing you are detected on the first miss, kneeling on the second, and prone on the third. You can reset this miss counter by using the peace command.** Caution – This special sometimes causes a bleed. You will be detected when the bleed ‘ticks’ ** Damage 2.5X Time 3.0X Effect : Remain undected
Flurry Shot 1 – Rifleman Rifle Abilites I : This attack can cause a dizzy state on a target. While Dizzy, the target can not burst run and may fall over if it makes a voluntary posture change. Damage 2.5X Time 2.0X Effect : Dizzy attack
Flurry Shot 2 – Rifleman Rifle Abilities III : This attack can cause a dizzy state on multiple targets. While Dizzy, the targets can not burst run and may fall over if they make a voluntary posture change. Damage 2.0X Time 2.3X Effect : AoE Dizzy attack
Flushing Shot 1 – Rifleman Counter-Sniping I : This attack can cause a Stun state on the target. While Stunned, the target has lower defenses and forfeits its next attack. Damage 2.0X Time 2.1X Effect : Stun + Posture Up
Flushing Shot 2 – Rifleman Counter-Sniping III : This attack can cause a Stun state on multiple targets. While Stunned, the target has lower defenses and forfeits its next attack.Damage 4.0X Time 2.6X Effect : AoE Stun + Posture Up
Head Shot 1 – Marksman Rifles I : Ranged attack that targets the Mind pool. Damage 1.5X Time 1.5X Effect : Mind pool targeting
Head Shot 2 – Marksman Rifles III : Ranged attack that targets the Mind pool. Damage 2.5X Time 1.75X Effect : Mind pool targeting
Head Shot 3 – Rifleman Sniping II : Ranged attack that targets the Mind pool. Damage 3.0X Time 2.0X Effect : Mind pool targeting
Mind Shot 1 – Marksman Rifles IV : Ranged attack that targets the Mind pool and causes a bleed. Damage 1.5X Time 1.8X Effect : Mind pool targeting + Bleed DoT
Mind Shot 2 – Rifleman Sniping I : Ranged attack that targets the Mind pool and causes a bleed. Damage 2.0X Time 2.0X Effect : Mind pool targeting + Bleed DoT
Sneak – Rifleman Concealment III : This ability allows the Rifleman to crawl while using TakeCover
Sniper Shot – Rifleman Sniping IV : Ranged Deathblow attack. Can only be performed in PvP vs an opponent that is incapped.** Caution- even while incapped, it is possible for the target to Dodge or Counter-Attack and negate this ** Damage 50pts Time ?? Effect : Ranged DB
Startle Shot 1 – Rifleman Counter-Sniping II : This attack can cause the target to raise its posture. Damage 2.0X Time 2.1X Effect : Posture Up
Startle Shot 2 – Rifleman Counter-Sniping IV : This attack can cause multiple targets to raise their posture. Damage 4.0X Time 2.6X Effect : AoE Posture Up
Strafe Shot 1 – Rifleman Novice : Attack that can clear a target from a covered (Take Cover) state. Damage 2.0X Time 2.0X Effect : Removes Cover (Take Cover)
Strafe Shot 2– Rifleman Master : Attack that can clear multiple targets from a covered (Take Cover) state. Damage 5.0X Time 3.5X Effect : AoE + Removes Cover (Take Cover)
Surprise Shot – Rifleman Sniping III : Ranged surprise attack that can only be performed from cover (Take Cover). ** This special is currently broken. It can be performed without being in cover (Take Cover) **. Damage 3.0X Time 3.0X Effect : ?? Currently broken
Take Cover – Marksman Rifles II : Can only be done while prone.. Increases your ranged defense. You can not move while using this ability unless you have the Sneak ability. Effect : Increases Ranged Defense
FAQ : What is an AoE attack? AoE stand for area of effect. For ranged weapons the AoE goes out in a cone approximately 30 degrees in width. This is different than melee AoE attacks which are radius attacks. You will only cause damage to targets that are currently aggro'd on you. You will see hits to non-aggro'd targets in the combat spam, however they will take no damage until they gain aggro on you or a party member.
Know issue with AoE attacks. AoE ranged attacks can cause aggro even though there is no line of sight. This will cause targets on the other sides of walls and such to gain aggro on you if they are caught in the cone effect. This will draw MOBs on you in places such as caves and the Corvette.
FAQ : I Dizzied a target with FlurryShot1/2 and then used StartleShot/FlushingShot/SuprressionShot to change it's psoture, but it never falls down. Is something broken?
No. The Dizzy/KD or Dizzy/posture change 'flopping fish' effect you are trying to cause only works on voluntary posture changes. A target that is Dizzy only has a chance to fall down if IT tries to change it's posture. Not if a posture change isFORCED upon it. Also Dizzy has no effect on creatures, only on NPC's.
Message Edited by Waste93 on 07-20-2004 06:58 PM
Message Edited by Waste93 on 08-14-2004 02:42 PM
Cradossk- Master RifleLizard
“I am no man!”
XaverriJade7 wrote:
Nice work!
May want to clarify that the AoEs work on multiple targets within an approximate 30 degree wide cone as opposed to the 360 degees of melee spin attacks.
They are different in post 1 and post 2, but within the posts, they match up just fine. Looks good to me
Waste93 wrote:
XaverriJade7 wrote:
Nice work!
May want to clarify that the AoEs work on multiple targets within an approximate 30 degree wide cone as opposed to the 360 degees of melee spin attacks.
Done. Also, are the fonts different sizes? It seems to keep changing font size on me for some unknown reason.
Message Edited by Sotaudi on 07-07-2004 06:27 PM
Sotaudi wrote:
Great job as usual, Waste. I would like to offer a couple of changes, though.
/Sneak was not removed. It may have originally been intended to be a /command, but it is nowa passive skill. Sneak allows you to move while under cover. From the time you get /TakeCover until you get to Concealment III where you obtain Sneak, you are immobile while in cover. Once you get Concealment III, you are able to crawl while in cover. This is the way it has always worked as far as I can tell, or at least it has worked this way since I got it towards the end of last year. So Sneak is not gone. It is just not a command.
I'll double check. I was fairly sure the patch notes back in Dec or Jan said it was removed. But then the patch notes could have been wrong too.
This, then, should also update your comments on TakeCover since, once you have Concealment III and Sneak, you are no longer immobile while in cover.
On Concealshot, are you sure about the miss counts? I have never gotten three misses as far as I can tell, even when prone, not that we miss muchat Master, anyway. But if you are correct, I would guess it has more to do with detectability than just posture. That is, I would expect that you may be able to get two misses if you are at close to 64m even if you are standing but that you may not get two misses if you are,say, at 30m, even if you are prone. It is something someone other than a Master would have to test because of the high accuracy at Master. Anyway, my experience has been that the only times I have ever gotten only one miss is when the creature was somewhat aware of me already, and I do not ever recall getting three misses.
I'mfairly positive on the shot count. Though I don't think it has much to do with ConcealShot as much as it does with the attacks you can do without getting detected from prone. When firing prone with a normal shot you get detected on the third hit. What I think happens is that the first two misses count against the two freebies you get for being prone. Not against the ConcealShot counter. So when you miss the third time that is the first ConcealShot miss it auto detects and it aggros. So the target really aggros on the first missed ConcealShot. However your posture gives you a couple freebies. One for Kneeling (so you aggro on the second miss) and two for prone.
Just made Novice Rifleman on TC so I'll be able to testit so more once I get ConcealShot.
Also, I doubt many, if any, of us can point to a time and say, "Boy, I remember the time I used Strafeshot and knocked that [guy | NPC] out of a covered state," since going prone in PvP is suicide and since no one uses it much after trying it out a few times. But Strafeshot2 and, maybe, Strafeshot1 aresupposed to have a delay as well. Look back through the posts on the Warcry nerf. Somewhere in the patch notes, there is a mention of a change in the a delay for Rifleman so that it, like the change to Warcry, would no longer affect non-living targets. At the time, the whole rifleman community went, "HUH!! What delay? We havea delay??????" From what I could gather from the context, it turns out that Strafeshot will delay the target when it knocks them out of cover. Since no one uses cover, it is little wonder that we never knew about it. It may only be Strafeshot2, but the context never ruled out Strafeshot1, but either way, at least one of them has a delay effect as well, apparently. I have never bothered trying to find out how it works since Cover is so uselss, but I will try to test it out next time I am on and report back.
Yea I remember that too. I think that if the target is in a covered state and you remove the cover it may act like a Stun where they miss their next attack. Or it could have been a delay like Warcry or PanicShot. If it was a Stun like effect it should still be in effect. If an actual delay it would have been removed with the delay nerfs.
SS1 and SS2 should be the same in regards to this. The only difference between the two attacks is that one is AoE while the other isn't. Well you also have a difference in the damage multiplier and delay mods. But as for effect they are the same except for AoE.
And yes going prone or using TakeCover is useless in PvP. It's just a very quick way to die. I'd be interested though to try to figure out if the bonus to Ranged Defense bonuswhile using it can push you over the +125 defense cap. If so it may have some use against ranged MOB's.
Actually unless this has recently been changed you can move while taking cover after you've hit concealment 3 which is where you get Sneak. Also, they've recently (patch 8) removed the tumbling animation and timer so as soon as you /takecover you can use specials instead of having to wait 45 seconds to stop tumbling. One other thing about Take Cover, since Publish (patch) 8 we now get /takecover to work about 98% of the time at master. Granted not too many of us use /takecover other than for conceal shot at high level creatures but it's good to know it now works and we don't have to sit there and spam /takecover 5 times before it activates.
Waste93 wrote:
Take Cover – Marksman Rifles II : Can only be done while prone.. Increases your ranged defense. You can not move while using this ability unless you have the Sneak ability. Effect : Increases Ranged Defense
Message Edited by Waste93 on 07-08-2004 07:12 AM
Message Edited by Veustuh on 07-08-2004 01:53 PM
Waste93 wrote:
[snip]
I'mfairly positive on the shot count. Though I don't think it has much to do with ConcealShot as much as it does with the attacks you can do without getting detected from prone. When firing prone with a normal shot you get detected on the third hit. What I think happens is that the first two misses count against the two freebies you get for being prone. Not against the ConcealShot counter. So when you miss the third time that is the first ConcealShot miss it auto detects and it aggros. So the target really aggros on the first missed ConcealShot. However your posture gives you a couple freebies. One for Kneeling (so you aggro on the second miss) and two for prone.
Just made Novice Rifleman on TC so I'll be able to testit so more once I get ConcealShot.
[snip]
It would make sense that way. That is, that the miss is counted like a non-Concealshot. I would expect, then, that it is a more complex issue than just a number of missed shots. For instance, before I was a Master Rifleman, three (non-Concealshot) shotswas about average for about how long it would take for the creature to aggro on me if I was prone and at the appropriate range. Early on, it was only about 2 shots and, somewhere before Master, it got to be about 3 or 4 shots. However, now that I am a Master Rifleman, I get at least 6 free shots before they aggro on me. In fact, with my DXR6b with a speed powerup and a 91 speed mod, I can often kill Enraged rancors using Headshot3 without getting aggroed.
That tells me that there is a time component to the formula more than just a set number of shots. In other words, I think what happens is that it starts a timer when you shoot it with the first shot. If you are still shooting it after the timer runs out, you will get aggroed. That would make sense becausein the time it takes a Novice Rifleman to shoot twice, in many instances, a Master Rifleman can get off 6 or more shots depending on the rifle speeds and specials used.
If this is the case and if Concealshot worked as you have suggested, it may be that you will find that the miss count will vary depending on when you miss. For instance, if you miss twice in a row, you will probably geta third miss before they aggro. But if you miss, then do not miss for a while, you may only get two misses because you have exceeded the timer I have suggested is involved.
It would probably take an enormous amount of data to confirm this either way because of the way Concealshotworks. But like we know that objects traveling near the speed of light do not behave as predicted by Newtonian physics, for all practical purposes, Newtonian physics works just fine for "everyday" use, so to speak.Likewise, it may be that there is a timer involved, but for Concealshot, just assuming that you have a specific number of shots may be the most practical way to look at it.
Waste93 wrote:
[snip]
Yea I remember that too. I think that if the target is in a covered state and you remove the cover it may act like a Stun where they miss their next attack. Or it could have been a delay like Warcry or PanicShot. If it was a Stun like effect it should still be in effect. If an actual delay it would have been removed with the delay nerfs.
SS1 and SS2 should be the same in regards to this. The only difference between the two attacks is that one is AoE while the other isn't. Well you also have a difference in the damage multiplier and delay mods. But as for effect they are the same except for AoE.
And yes going prone or using TakeCover is useless in PvP. It's just a very quick way to die. I'd be interested though to try to figure out if the bonus to Ranged Defense bonuswhile using it can push you over the +125 defense cap. If so it may have some use against ranged MOB's.