Rifleman Archive

This is mainly in response to this thread:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=rifleman&message.id=7448

But, also for any inquiring minds, here is proof that master riflemen can shoot 6+ speed weapons at 1 shot per second, also to note... if anyone knows WHY this occurs, please tune in (95% speed increase on 6.2 second weapon is not 1 second, I'm relatively sure.)

Here go:

http://upload.justtalk.net/files/screenShot00064.jpg

Thanks, and best of luck

Via, Master Rifleman, Novice Bounty Hunter,Master Scout, Master Marksman

Maybe it takes 95% away from the total weapon speed. So you have a 10 second gun, it takes away 9.5 speed leaving it at 0.5 which is below the 1 second cap so it's bumped up to 1 second.

It's also happening with pistols and carbines, just the difference there isn't quite as noticable. The best explanation I've heard so far as for why it's happening is that the speed mods are a percentage decrease to delay instead of an increase to speed, so if a +100 speed mod was a -100% decrease to delay, regardless of the gun, the delay would always be zero.. and then bumped up to 1 cause of the cap. Rifles get +90, so technically if thats true then the highest delay T21s wont be shooting everything quite that fast, but they get close too. Pistol/carbine + bh can go over +100 speed mod, but the highest delay weapons you can get for carbines are around 5 or something.. so not much help there, its all 1 delay. It's a pretty major flaw in the game in any case, it shouldn't be working like that.

It seems to me the whole combat system is screwed up. Being a poor combat class until you hit master isn't fun, I'm sure the master riflemen out there won't enjoy it much either when their speed bonus is "fixed" and they go back to being worse than pistol/carbine users.

The class balance would obviously need to bedone according to what that would make it be, but it's a bit hard to do when system works like it is now. The novice riflemen complaining about riflemen being too sucky compared to pistols/carbines might be right, but with how big the balance difference is between a master and a novice right now, you cant just drastically increase rifleman power to make novices be a match for their carbineer/pistol equivalents or the masters will be horribly overpowered. T21 is a good example, its not overpowered in the hands of a novice cause they actually still have a delay, but its a totally different thing with masters

Seflyn: That's the only logical explanation I've heard, now they have to fix it.

Sarne: No clue, I have +95 speed, from master marksman also, but I seem to think rehauling how "weapon speed modifiers" work in the game could be a difficult task.

a bit of deduced math from SWG discussion,

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=370235&view=by_date_ascending&page=9

Greetings Raph,

glad to see you are trying to pull us closer together in terms of understanding the perspective if this change.

Whay i would like is a bit of background to work with. I know you are not going to post the exact formulas used for determining combat speed, but I'll try to see ifI can squeeze some information out of you anyway

You say that everything caps at 1 second speed.

and from the calculations you give in your first post the deduced formula for attack speed is along the lines of.

Weapon delay =

initial weapon delay * (1-(speed_slice%/100)) * (1-(+_weapon_speed_from_skills)/100)

this fits with the 2.3 speed of a 5.1 initial speed rifle sliced 35% used by a +30 rifle speed rifleman, as

2.3 = 5.1 * (1 - 35/100 ) * (1 - 30/100 )

If this formula is wrong, please let me know.

so, 5.1 delay weapon becomes a 2.3 delay weapon in the hands of a novice rifleman.

In the hands of a master rifleman the calculation looks like this

5.1 * (1 - 35/100 ) * (1 - 90/100 ) = 0.3315 ~ 1 as the cap is 1

even if the rifle was not sliced the result would be

5.1 * (1 - 0/100 ) * (1 -90/100 ) = 0.51 ~ 1 as the cap is 1

without the slice and with +50 rifle speed the speed would be

5.1 * (1 - 0/100 ) * (1 - 50/100 ) = 2.55

Not that far from the delay at +30 rifle speed with a 35% slice to speed.

basicly, for a master rifleman at +90 rifle speed itmeans, that any weapon below or equal to 10 delay would become 1 delay.

For a pistol with 2.1 delay you would reach the cap much faster

at +50 pistol speed, a 2.1 deali pistol would become

2.1 * (1 - 0/100 ) * (1 - 50/100 ) = 1.05

this means that you would get onlt 0.05 improvement by going higher that +50 pistol speed.

There are numerous accounts that master riflemen can shoot every second without specials.

and around 2.5 second on hs3/other high specials. This is the same for pistols as well.

so basicly when you are maxed in your advanced ranged proffesion you have the same delay as everyone else.

The difference iswhen in your chosen proffesion you reach the cap.

Taking this in mind and no weapons with speed greater than 10, higher damage = higher DPS without specials.

The only difference is what specials you have and how often you can use them due to HAM costs.

Raph, i hope that the above is not true, as every class hitting the same cap in attack speed kind of makes me wonder how well designed the system is.

As i have only playe a rifleman and not close to the cap yet, I am not sure ifspecials scale to the cap or to the actual calculated delay. Someone enligthen me.

Paragon - Ecllipse

Some specials can shoot once per second, but some do not (strafe 2 for example) shoots once every second, but every third shot it takes two seconds... either way, enough to own your HAM in about 10 seconds.