Rifleman Archive

As the subject says we all hate the 2.5x damage we incur while in melee combat. This is totaly outrageous. First off a rifle in melee combat is like a short staff when used by a properly trained rifleman. Its more than capiable of blocking an incomming sword. So in this case why not at counter-sniping II reduce the damage we take to 1.5x, then at master allow us to take 1.0x any thoughts?

I agree, although I had thought of putting it in the two boxes of rifle special abilities that currently don't have a new action linked with it.

I'd also add a close range attacks such as rifle butt [mentioned numerous times on other posts] in those boxes as well.

The reason for the 2.5x damage is probably something like this:

Yes, IRL you can use a rifle to block melee attacks, possibly more effectively than a pistol. However, we have to consider game mechanics, as well. If you took no additional damage with the rifle out, there's no pressure to put the gun away. And given the range modifiers, you'd be better off hitting a different target than the one that is meleeing you (just ignore that guy for now, hit the guy further away since you have a better chance of hitting/killing the other guy). This is especially true if you have someone in your group who can (eventually) take care of the melee that's on you. If you were really using your rifle as a melee tool to defend yourself, you wouldn't be able to fire the gun. So the 'reasonable' comprimise is the high melee damage to make riflemen put their rifles away in melee and force them to go to a different weapon.

Any reasoning which removes the damage multiplier will probably have to add something which forces the rifleman to deal with the melee combatant first, rather than someone else easier to hit. The 'defensive posture' suggestion someone made on another thread would accomplish this, although it would probably require a fair amount of coding (and potential for bugs).

The best alternative I can think of ..2.5x melee damage while prone, 1.5x melee damage while kneel etc. Dont forget that that we are already take HUGE accuracy penalty at the point blank range.

V. Wookiee Master Combat Medic/Rifleman

Riflemen are unfairly punished by the 2.5 multiplier.The stances used for wieldinga rifle vs.carbine vs.pistol (in combat) are all equally unsuitable fordefending against melee attacks. If anything, they have it backwards: a rifle should be a bettermelee defense tool than a carbine or pistol.

If it was up to me, I'd make it so yourpositionhas the largest impact on how muchdamage you're taking. Standing would take 1.5 damage, kneeling 2.0,prone 2.5, applyingto all rangedfighters under melee attack.

I'd also put in amultiplier to account for each weapon type's suitability for defensive use in melee, which would come into playif you hit Peace (or maybe a new Defense move) while under attack.Rifle would be 0.7(goodshape and size for blocking), carbine 0.8(less so), pistol 0.9 (even less so).

So a standing rifleman, for example,would take 1.5damage in melee, but only 1.05(1.5 x 0.7) when peaced or defendingin order to get away.A standing carbineer would be subject to the same 1.5damage, or1.2 (1.5 x 0.8) when defending.Pistoleer -again 1.5 melee damage, but 1.35(1.5 x 0.9) when defending.

The kneeling and prone cases would be alotless common, but would multiply out the same way.

My 2 cents

I am a rifleman/ranger i have no other weapons to switch to vs melee how can you account for those of use that have focused on master rifleman, master ranger.

Ranger Hermit of Corellia

Im with Rassylon

Im a ranger/rifleman and dont have the skills points for an addtional weapon.

My belief on this, is i just cant see in reasoning why we incurr it in a PvE Sense.

There is no logic why we get 2.5x damage against critters and NPC's (especially considering the warp bug)

I would be happy if we retained the 2.5x dam in PvP only and not on PvE.

This would work becuase,

1. It will make it slightly easier to survive out in the forests and jungles when we are hunting game to help us advance. We still have alot of penalties as rifleman anyways.

2. They can do it as well. If they can implement a system where it recognises that you are in PvP (75% reduction) then they certainly can recognise when you are in a PvE situatuin.

I for one, would be happy with just this one change to rifleman (might bring back the T21 to pre nerf) and left everything the same.

I think most of you guys would be with me on this one.

Sounds good to me. Just replace that wiht the other stuff that dosen't work.

GIVE US A BAYONETTE!!!! LET THEM SEE HOW MUCH A RIFLE MESSES UP OUR MELEE DEF!!!!

Allow me to pimp myself and direct you to:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=rifleman&message.id=13173

Noules, your logic is clear, but your solution is bad. As you stated: Someone using rilfe for defence, cant fire. Easy as that - our firing will be interupted, when firing onguy nr.1when guy nr. 2 is reshaping our face with fists. It was in DAoC, Idont see reason why it cant be in SWG. Dmg multiplier was designed to give melee PC a chance in PvP - but in beta rifles had greater range,it was shortened due the fact it overloaded the server. Dmg multiplier howewer remained. If riflemans have a way to keep their targets at distance, ok. But now even more after last patch- I am using T21 7,5s am on Expert Rifle Spec Abil and have +60 rifle speed and in most cases dizzy effect dont last long enough to see my next shot.Reasoning for this dmg multiplier has gone, but it remained. Thats all. Shoot me.

Yes, making the rifleman not be able to shoot while under melee is another solution (the 'caster' solution). This is arguably worse than being able to shoot but taking more damage, though. I can think of situations where I'd rather have a chance at that one more shot despite the greater melee damage than not firing at all.

The reason for that is due to hit chances. If I'm 'high' level relative to the mob, and defense mods are working, then my chance of hitting the mob is higher and the chance of the mob hitting me is lower. This sort of negates the penalty since the odds of me getting shots off close before the mob can kill me are higher. If it was a flat 'interruption' effect, they'd have to balance that separately (it would suck if at master rifle I was still being consistently interrupted by a gnort - sort of like a level 50 RR7 healer being interrupted by a grey druid pet in RvR, to draw a not-so-random comparison).

If there was no such thing as pet/mob warping and server positions were better reflected on the clients, their solution would be quite elegant (i.e. if you always had a chance to put away your gun before engaging in melee). It's just their net code seems really lacking.

When in melee range, the rifle should be used to bayonet stab or to bash. Firing should not be allowed when a rifleman is under melee attack. End of story.