Rifleman Archive
Thread: nerf Pistoleers to hell and back
Jagen88 wrote
"No, YOU can't hit anything closer than 30m because you don't know how to play a rifleman.
Point: Spraysticks not only have a fast firing rate, but also have a ...drumroll.....IDEAL RANGE OF 30m.
Wow, you mean you can' t use the T21 sniper cannon as accuractely up close and you have to actually use a weapon desgined for closer range fighting. GOOD GODS! The tactics involved in that are so complex!!
Wait...SG82...35m ideal range,
You mean ANOTHER rifle has better accuracy at around 30m? Is this really news to you?
Please, keep shooting at us with your T21 at close range, and let us get into close range. Do you know how to kite? If so, then you NEED To learn how to kite someone to stay inside your ideal range, be it 60m, or 30m. Goodgravy, you already hit mind pool, have insane mind bleeds, dizzy/posture change, better armor rating weapons, better range (shown above), and now rifleman want:
1. Even MORE accuracy so they can run around shooting long range rifles from the hip..accurately..lol
2. To take less melee damage when hit by melee attacks.
3. Pistols to be less effective.... HAHA, thanks for the love fools!
Oh please, tell us what you trying to do....turn rifles into God Mode? What? Cover is getting a boost too? Good grief, and you STILL think pistols should be nerf? Right. My advice is go back to the rifleman board and quit trying to get other professions nerfed. It's embarassing for you guys. Getting others nerfed is not something you should strive for...especiallly when you are disproven so very easily.
Bounty hunters already are a more effective mind pool profession than you, if you really want to be a better rifleman, go BH, that should keep you busy."
Before this post I could kinda see thier point of view. After reading this BY THE PISTOLEER CORRESPONDENT ... Screw them and nerf them to hell.
and what was He saying about the Ald?!?!
Nerf em down to 10m shooting range let them get up close and personal like a pistol should be ... let them deal with TKA'sand the Meleers.
if you read the post and see the Pistol Coorespondent Bashing a fellow Rifleman ... you would know why my "Feathers were ruffled" at the time.
im feeling much better now 
let me set this straight.
I Really don't Appreciate the way the Pistoleer Coorespondent handled himself in this post at all.
That Being said this post shouldnt of been Made with the topic as such ... it was done out of anger instead of my usual level headedness .
My apologies to all who it offends except maybe the pistol Coor. himself.
Raloorn wrote:
let me set this straight.
I Really don't Appreciate the way the Pistoleer Coorespondent handled himself in this post at all.
That Being said this post shouldnt of been Made with the topic as such ... it was done out of anger instead of my usual level headedness .
My apologies to all who it offends except maybe the pistol Coor. himself.
Nothing personal, obviously. We riflemen gotta stick together. I definitly understand "Rifle Rage", must be the repeated shot to the head (from our own guns) and the radiation from the cloning center 
Khyras, On Bria.
Doctor/ Rifleman
"Wipe them out. ALL of them" -Devs to Riflemen
My post was made out of rage as well.
Logging into the correspondent forum to see "Reduce pistol range to 32m on all specials!" posted over and over, didn't exactly brighten up my day.
For example, I wanted to nerf kip up shot, since it did more damage than most of the pistoleer special attacks (hah, funny I know), it seems kip up shot could be fired while running, but shouldn't it have been usable only when prone or kneeling? I mean, dive shot drops you prone (cant shoot while running), rolls shot makes you roll to kneel (so you cant run and gun), but kip up shot you can fire while running. That means a noob marksman pistol user has a DPS equivalent of fan shot.
So what did I do? I PM'd the marksman correspondent (nice chap btw), and explained the situation, and he agreed. Did I include "nerf marksman", even though it was a very minor thing, before even "discussing" it? No. Was there a rational behind it that didn't impact balance (actually corrected an imbalance)? Yes.
That's what I'd like to see, a little discussion before other professions write to the devs to nerf, specifically, other professions, when those other professions are NOT overpowered in comparison to them. Pistoleers aren't owning anyone right now, read our forum. PISTOLS aren't so bad, I mean, BH specials rock, scatters are nice, and smuggler specials (use to, and will again)are better than pistoleer specials. It's pistoleers that I'm worried about. I hate that pistoleers get mixed up with two effective professions, it makes it hard for people to sepeareate them.
Sorry for all the drama, but I was simply shocked to see another professsion correspondent, specifically asking for nerfs on pistoleers (and BHs, and Carbines) on the developer/correspondent only forum. Rifles have their own probelms, and I hope you get them worked out, I'm pushing the devs on corr forum to do a first pass of ALL Professions obvious bugs/broken things, before finishing player cities. Shouldn't I be posting about pistoleers needing fixes NOW, instead, if I'm really that horrible?
The big problem, IMO, isn't pistoleer but Pistoleer when combined with BH.
BH pistol line should not grant pistol accuracy and speed.
Make the ScatterPistol into it's own weapon and then give BH "Scatterpisol Accuracy" and "Scatterpistol Speed" that apply only to that weapon. That way Pistoleer and BH do not stack with each other to create a single SuperTemplate thatso many people are switching to.
I don't have any serious issues with Pistoleers, but then I can't be sure because every Pistoleer I see is a Bounty Hunter.
Agree Pecos, at the moment Master Pistoleer (novice pisoleer is in a class of its own compared with novice rifle/carbine)on its own is a bit gimpy, but as soon as you add BH to that pistoleerit becomes amazing. The trouble with buffing the pistoleer part is the BH reap the benefits as well.
I really don't see how they can make the pistoleer stronger without changing the way BH works, every buff you give to pistoleer simply makes the BH/Pistoleer combo even better.
Again, its not the problem of combining classes...
All my tests have been done with Master Pistoleers and ONLY Master Pistoelers. No BH, one was a smuggler, but last I checked Dirty Fighting doesnt give you any pistol bonuses.
Light Lightning Cannont
Scatter Pistol
[insert name of Carbine here]
Let them earn unique XP in each of these guns, and let them earn special mods for each of these guns THAT DO NOT APPLY to normal pistols and carbines.
The truth is that most of the "cheap Pistoleers" and "cheap Bounty Hunters" are one and the same. People who are moonlighting in both professions in order to get an OUTRAGEOUS accuracy/speed boost that no sane Developer could ever have intended.
I have dealt with Jaegen outside of the Rifleman/Pistoleer issue, and he was very reasonable. In fact, he was a great help to me in providing some information about Pistol. I don't think he is vindictive or mean-spirited, and I do think he is just trying to defend his profession's slice of the pie. Isn't that what we're doing, to a point?
That being said, and as someone who has played as a Smuggler, a Bounty Hunter, a Pistoleer, a Carbineer and a Rifleman (not all at once, obviously) the mechanics of the game favor Pistoleers somewhat, and favor Pistoleer/Bounty Hunters to a disgusting degree. But I think if the Bounty Hunter bonus were changed (READ: NOT REMOVED) so that it only benefited Bounty Hunters, it would make the game better for everyone. Well, no. It would make the game worse for 133t d00dz. So, you know, it would make the game better for everyone with a soul.
Separating the weapon mods would prevent people from moonlighting for skill mods. It would also give Bounty Hunters access to another "cool weapon that they spend 217 points earning!" It'd be good for everyone, and most of the "cheap pistol users" would suddenly be gone from the game, as would the "cheap carbine users". Because both of those groups are really moonlighters using the Bounty Hunter skill mods to increase their effectiveness beyond their profession's limits. The reason Riflemen complain the loudest, obviously, is that there are no rifle skill mods in Bounty Hunter.
But I'm glad to hear it. There shouldn't be. There shouldn't be cross-professional skill mods that can stack like that for any combat class. Period.
Good point. Make BH like Commandos - they start from scratch with heavy weapons. Sure, they can use other profession specials with the blast pistol, but that may change in time as well.
It would truly stop folks from entering godmode as they do now with just a few or even 4 boxes of BH combined with carbineer or pistoleer.
See Aldeon, that's where the majority of the rifle community and you differ. They KEEP taking into account BALANCE. Look at Noules, look at Aden, look even at Pshyco...
Look at Pecos, he in one paragraph showed more respect for "balance" with regards to pistoleers/stacked BHs than you have in every post that you talk about pistoleers. Why?
Even the post on this page that's a FLAME to me, says "If speed is changed, accuracy is one way to balance that". And my point..SPEED SHOULD NOT CHANGE the way the devs suggest. Wow, I'm disagreeable? Nonsense.
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Again, its not the problem of combining classes... - Aldeon
Aldeon, what's theproblem? The question, I'll check corr boards to see if you avoided it again there too, is:
What makes PISTOLEERS so powerful that they need a reduction in accuracy?
It's my position that pistoleers are NOT effective right now, and nerfs without discussion of fixes are..well, nerf calls by you. If you want to debate that in a friendly post, let's do it. Otheriwise, you're being...unilateral? Whatever that means.
Second question:
Are rifles specials, AR, pool targeted shots, bleeds, posture change/dizzy, etc., etc. more effective than pistoleer specials, when you hit? You say, "All master professions are roughly at the same accuracy", yet you know that rifle specials are more effective than pistoleer specials. Yet you say this is about balance? Please, elaborate. Win me over rather than blindly asking for nerfs to pistoleers.
AldeonAvardulin wrote:
Again, its not the problem of combining classes...
All my tests have been done with Master Pistoleers and ONLY Master Pistoelers. No BH, one was a smuggler, but last I checked Dirty Fighting doesnt give you any pistol bonuses.
What tests?
I could be easily swayed to saying that pistoleers are overpowered if you have tests that demonstrate this. My real platform is that while I'm not sure about Master Pistoleer, I do know for a fact that Pistoleer+BH is a grossly overpoweredtemplate, especially in PvP.
"So, you know, it would make the game better for everyone with a soul."
ROTFLMAO