Rifleman Archive
Thread: Rifleman Guide to Going Pistoleer (Until We Are Fixed, At Least)
Rifleman Guide to Going Pistoleer (Until We Are Fixed, At Least)
Part 1
-* Summary *-
I’m a retired Rifleman who recently went Pistoleer because I was tired of dealing with the brokenness of this class. I’ve had nothing but insane fun since. The time it takes to go Pistoleer is nothing compared to how long it takes to become a Rifleman, so it’s a good change/vacation/temporary distraction for us. Anyone who has made Rifleman or spent anytime grinding up Marksman Rifle tree can easily take up a pistol.
In addition, I’ve found myself as a pistol user to be five times as powerful as I’d be as a Rifle user—it’s fun to not worry about dying every encounter for once. As a former ‘squishy’ Rifleman, I actually feel somewhat uber now. :0
Let me say four things about this post before I begin…
1 – This post is nothing more than a suggestion for a nice, relaxing vacation for frustrated Rifleman—not a flame to Rifleman or Pistoleers, not a rant, not a whine—just a fun change that really recharged my game, something other Riflemen might enjoy as well.
2 – This is not intended in ANY MANNER to be a call to nerf Pistoleers or marginalize them in any way. Their class currently works—Rifleman doesn’t. Pistoleers are *not* too powerful (compare CH, BH and Commando if you think so) and Rifleman would be just as powerful IF OUR CLASS WASN’T BROKEN. The devs need to fix Rifleman by giving them class-specific advantages, and not nerf Pistoleer.
3 – I’m writing this only because I’ve had such a good time since I switched to Pistol that I wanted to clue other Rifleman in to the fun (and I wish somebody had clued me in a long time ago, as I’ve been a Rifleman since beta).
4 – As long as our class is broken as badly as it is, I thought many of my fellow Rifleman might enjoy an extremely fun distraction (assuming they don’t convert for good).
-* My Reasons For Switching *-
About my experience--I have a fair (not amazing) amount of experience in both Rifle and Pistol (2/0/0/1 Rifleman, newly minted 0/0/0/0 Pistoleer). The reason I think a switch is a good idea is based on my *personal* comparisons of the classes as they currently work (and remember, Pistoleer WORKS… Rifle is BROKEN. That’s why Pistol is coming out better here, and no reason to change how Pistols work).
1) Accuracy – I hit just as accurately with my pistol at 60m as I do with my Rifle, and I fire much faster. I seldom engaged things outside 60m as a Rifleman since they tended to move after the first shot (and possibly walk out of range), not to mention warping. I’ve seen no noticeable difference between Pistol and Rifle accuracy at 60m, and there’s no real advantage to using Rifle over Pistol at long range.
2) Damage – I used to think Rifles were unparalleled for one shot kills on low level mobs. One *shot* kills yes, but efficiency, damage, and speed, no. In the same time it would take a guy with Rifle III to fire two Headshots (often required to kill tougher low level mobs) a guy with Pistol III can Aim/Bodyshot2, Aim/Bodyshot2, Suppression Fire, and Aim/BodyShot2 the same mob, killing it just as fast or faster as a Rifleman. There’s no real advantage in damage vs easy kills with a Rifle—if anything, Pistols are actually easier to get quick kills with because of the speed.
3) HAM Cost and Downtime – This is the biggest factor in my switch. In the above example, a Rifleman would probably use about 100-120 Mind for his two Headshot2s, assuming he’s got decent Focus and a good rifle, then wait about 30 seconds to regenerate that Mind after the battle. When using the pistol combo I listed above, I use about 40 to 50 ACTION total, and I can stim that away instantly after the fight (though it regens so fast it’s usually not necessary). So, for half the HAM cost, I do the same damage in the same time just as accurately AND have NO real downtime at all (plus I can instantly stim the HAM cost away, impossible with Mind)
4) Melee Damage – Using a pistol, you do NOT take the 2.5x melee damage modifier when creatures hit you (which happens a lot) and you are MOST accurate at 0 to 16m (where you most often are). You’ll be amazed at how much more resilient you are while dishing out the same damage more accurately at close range—no more fear of being embarrassed when a single womp rat incaps you. 
Part 2 coming a sec...
Part 2
-* Personal Examples of My New ‘Uberness’ *-
Sounds pretty good, doesn’t it? Other personal examples--with Pistol IV, a decent FGW5, and some good stimpacks, I was able to solo four yellow con Desert Demons in about a minute. Twice in a row. For 8k. I can’t name a guy with Rifle IV who can do that.
Pistol is just FUNNER than Rifle. Here was my typical Rifle strategy—kneel at 60m. Aim/Mindshot2. Aim/Mindshot1. Stand up, switch to Spraystick, run like hell using Suppression Fire. Only do this on the three or four mobs you know you can kill, and repeat into infinitum. BORING!
With a Pistol, I can have badass run and gun fights with multiple opponents at once—dodging, running closer and farther away, mixing up Bodyshots, Healthshots, Suppression Fires and stims, etc. I can kill just about 90% of the stuff I set my mind too, so there’s a ton more variety in fights and things to fight. Basically there’s just a lot more to do as a Pistoleer—combat is much funner and faster paced, a real charge, and you die a TON less.
Another personal example… I made 40k of Pistol exp yesterday night on Tat in ONE hour simply by taking out a particularly fast spawning nest of Mutant Womp Rats. Pistol exp comes insanely fast in comparison to Rifle.
Part 3 coming...
Part 3
-* Switching to Pistoleer (Even for a Vacation) *-
Now then--assuming I convinced you starving Rifleman you need a Pistol-wielding vacation, here’s all you have to do to switch… I have basic medic skills, if you can’t stim yourself you might go a bit slower than I did, but not much.
1) Start by buying a decent DL-18, you can find them for 6k or less. They’re the best weapon a newbie Marksman can use. Go outside the newbie town of your choice and shoot newbie critters with it (I did this on Corellia). It should take you 1 to 3 MINUTES to make Pistol I (it took me two minutes, but I took a couple of yellow cons). By comparison, it took me almost10 minutes to get Rifle I).
2) Now you’ve got a choice. If you’ve got cash to burn, buy a decent pistol with one of your new certs and you’ll go up even faster… however, I got all the way to Pistol IV with that little DL-18. After you’re equipped, go kill some more newbie mobs until you hit Pistol III.
3) I took me another THREE hours killing newbie mobs to get to Pistol III. Yes, I know it took most Rifleman FIFTEEN+ hours to get to Rifle III, and that’s why Pistol is so much better—very little downtime and insane exp rates. At Pistol III you’ll get Bodyshot2, your best special for awhile, and can get a Scout Blaster (good weapon).
4) Now take your DL-18 (if you’re cheap) or your Scout Blaster (if you’ve got money) and either solo whites and yellows (if you’re in a largely populated area) or group to kill some bigger mobs (you’ll gain a ton more exp in groups with a pistol, and you’re contributing to hitting Mob Health pools, what 60% of your group is hitting anyway). It took me about TEN hours to get Pistol IV with that little DL-18, but that was because I went to Dath and took on Baz Nitches with a large group for cash—soloing on Tat, I could have climbed much quicker. It took me a WEEK to get Rifle IV.
5) Once you make Pistol IV, go to an experienced weaponsmith and buy an FWG5. It’s a terrific wep and far more effective than a Laser Rifle due to the advantages I’ve listed above (no 2.5x melee damage, no downtime, tiny HAM cost, great accuracy and damage). Hell, that little FWG5 outperforms my T-21 half the time (I’ve tested this by putting a Mindshot2 and a Mindshot1 on a mob, then going after it with HealthShot1 and Bodyshot2. Healthshot1 and Bodyshot2 with an FWG5 kill the mob quicker than Mindshot1 and Mindshot2 from my T-21, which is all I’d get off because of its slowness)
6) Now you’re set! It’s a very short climb to Pistoleer from here (as I said, I made 40k towards the 125k necessary for Pistoleer in an HOUR on TATOOINE. That’s right, 1/3 of the exp needed in one hour on a newbie planet. It took me somewhere about a week to make Rifle IV, and god knows how long to get that 125000 for Rifleman.
So, all in all, you’ll invest less than 15 hours of that time you’d normally be grinding Banthas to become a newly minted Pistoleer who is five times as powerful at equivalent level, less gimped, and insanely fun to play.
Conclusion
I’m keeping my Rifle skills for backup and support, but Pistol is my weapon of choice until the devs fix the Rifleman class. Sadly, given the rock rock paper mentality the devs have consistently shown (I love that metaphor—it was basically an intelligent guy’s way of saying that the devs will make three or four classes, then make it so one class has all the advantages and owns the other three) I doubt this will happen anytime soon.
Right now, whether we like it or not, we are playing a game of Rock (Rifle) Rock (Carbine) Paper (Pistol). That is, Pistol beats the others every time, and has no disadvantages at all versus the others. Everything a Rifleman or Carbineer can do, a Pistoleer can currently do better.
A lot of us have been bitching about it. Given that the devs don’t care, I just decided to go play a fun class instead of letting myself get bent out of shape at SWG. It’s the best thing I ever did, and I hope this post will help some of you frustrated Rifleman take a fun break that will renew your interest in SWG (especially after the coming speed nerf on rifles).
Comments welcome—oh, and to anyone who wants to come in and dispute any of the facts in this post, I’ll say again these are my PERSONAL experiences—your mileage may vary. Enjoy!
Fastest xp in that scenario would be to appy your bleeds with the rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and do your non-bleed damage. Should get full pistol xp that way. (actually should get full pistol xp for just hitting it once after applying bleeds unless something has changed)
Daishar
Come on, try CH. How can something that feels sooo good be wrong? (Psycho says with a devilish smile on his face) It will only cost your soul......Muhhh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Rifleman/CH StarSider
Hehe CH requires more investment that Pistoleer... after wasting all that time on Rifle Skills, I've got very little patience left for leveling... :0
Getting Pistol XP is SO mucheasier than getting Rifle XP. I was a novice rifleman with only one box of pistol in the marksman tree.Since then I've gotten up to1-1-1-2 Rifleman, but in that same time, I was forced to fall back on my pistol so often that I've now gotten all FOUR boxes of Bounty Hunter Pistol and Novice Pistoleer! (Coincedentally, Mind Shot II followed by Mind Shot I and then followed by a whole lot of Eye Shots is a pretty good combo in PvE. I can drop a lot of things that con red to me with no trouble at all.)
-------------------------
Fastest xp in that scenario would be to appy your bleeds with the rifle and then immediately switch to pistol and do your non-bleed damage. Should get full pistol xp that way. (actually should get full pistol xp for just hitting it once after applying bleeds unless something has changed)
-------------------------
That's right, I forgot about that one... since bleeds are currently buggy as heck, you can put a Mindshot2/Mindshot1 on something, hit it with a pistol ONCE, and get full Pistol XP for it when it dies (I bet youcould dothis with carbines as well).Of course, it's probably considered an exploit, but since its doubtful the devs will fix it anytime soon, this is a great tactic for Rifleman working on Pistol.
The way the game is currently set up, primarily the 64m max range, effectivly means that anyone who tries to only use a rifle as thier weapon is in a word screwed. This isnt such a bad thing because we are not forced to use only rifles or only pistols, the game does does allow for a quick switch to a more appropriate weapon at close range so you get the advantages of both it just costs more points.
The only issue I have is that I dont have something "forcing" me to equip a rifle for the longer range stuff and I end up forgetting to equip it.
Silverlobo said:
----------------------------------------
Proof again that Novice Rifleman should be banned from speaking about things they have no clue about.
A Master Rifleman will beat down a Master Pistoleer each and every time they face each other in PvP. So your notion that Master Pistoleer is superior to both Rifle and Carbine is based off your total lack of experience playing a true Rifleman, a Master Rifleman. ONLY when pistoleer gets mixed with BH do they equal, and in some casses surpass a Master Rifleman.
If the Master Rifleman out there continue to let these complete idiots speak for our profession we might as well leave the profession now, cause they are going to get our profession FUBAR.
---------------------------------------------
Good godman,put that flamethrower away...
All I'm doing here is posting my *personal* experiences with Rifle and Pistol, and suggesting that people who are frustrated with the bugginess, slowness, and downtimeof Rifle try something new. I enjoy Pistol 10 times as much as I did Rifle... it's faster, funner and has a ton less downtime. Not to mention I get killed a great deal less. And yes, as far as MY PERSONAL ABILITY to deal damage goes, I can do a ton more a ton quicker with a Pistol.
I don't see how me making a postabout my personal experience in SWG entitles you to call me an idiot.
Not everyone has the patience to grind Banthas through 4 tiers of Rifleman to get to Master. I play SWG about 2 hours a night once or twice a week, tops. I enjoy grouping and playing with friends more than anything, but as a Rifleman I was pretty useless in a group. As a Pistoleer I'm welcome anywhere.
And, say what you will, I think any profession that REQUIRES you to get to Master before you are even remotely powerful in PvE or PvP is broken. That's my opinion, and it's just as valid as yours.
HaydenCross wrote:
Hehe CH requires more investment that Pistoleer... after wasting all that time on Rifle Skills, I've got very little patience left for leveling... :0
Actually CH is reaaaaaally easy.
All you need is "scouting" XP (not trapping or survival), so you can make Novice CH in 2 nights on Dantooine.
After that, a friend of mine has some macro he uses... totally legit in-game macro, he takes a low level pet to a newbie zone where corellian butterflies spawn nonstop and the macro is something like targetnext, attack, pause, targetnext, attack, pause, etc.
Each kill gets him something like 150 CH XP and he can leave it running overnight, while at work, etc. Hassle free leveling, can't beat that.
Proof again that Novice Rifleman should be banned from speaking about things they have no clue about.
A Master Rifleman will beat down a Master Pistoleer each and every time they face each other in PvP. So your notion that Master Pistoleer is superior to both Rifle and Carbine is based off your total lack of experience playing a true Rifleman, a Master Rifleman. ONLY when pistoleer gets mixed with BH do they equal, and in some casses surpass a Master Rifleman.
If the Master Rifleman out there continue to let these complete idiots speak for our profession we might as well leave the profession now, cause they are going to get our profession FUBAR.
SilverLobo wrote:Proof again that Novice Rifleman should be banned from speaking about things they have no clue about.
A Master Rifleman will beat down a Master Pistoleer each and every time they face each other in PvP. So your notion that Master Pistoleer is superior to both Rifle and Carbine is based off your total lack of experience playing a true Rifleman, a Master Rifleman. ONLY when pistoleer gets mixed with BH do they equal, and in some casses surpass a Master Rifleman.
If the Master Rifleman out there continue to let these complete idiots speak for our profession we might as well leave the profession now, cause they are going to get our profession FUBAR.
Actually, if people want to stop levelling rifleman and go pistol, I'm all for it...
Blunt way to put it, but I have to agree with Silverlobo. Pistol is the better weapon if you want to be useful without going to master, but a master rifleman's advantage far outweigh the disadvantages. We've been saying this for quite some time now.