Rifleman Archive

Thread: Oh my i have to rethink my entire rifleman strategy

doltec
Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:51 am
#1

Ok , i read the patch notes and was no where even prepared for what i encountered last night when i went to hunt. I have been in the habit of group hunting and not bothering to buff. By the time a creature was close enough to actually damage me i was usually watching it slide to a halt at my feet dead. Well the power of the rifles hasn't gone away thank goodness, because the melee to hit bonus has made every piece of clothes my squad leader abilities absolutely worthless. with the rifleman tree we get +42 to melee defense, my clothes bring that up to 54 and stacked in group since i am a master squad leader up to +84 melee defense. Well if i had any defenses at all last night they were not appareant. Every creature that close enough to attack me hit me with their attack i didnt avoid, dodge, block anything all not every melee attack landed on me. I am used to having only 500 health and action but could count on at least one miss to enable me finish of the attacking creature. Well that strategy is gone. I have begun stat migration from my mind to health and action so i have more lee way and the possible ability to wear armor while unbuffed.


Has anyone else run into this and what are your new stats going to be?




Mac'hin Shinowea
(Me: I think I can take him)
(Matticus: Don't we are almost there)
(Me: Incapped.. nope slain i'll be there in a minute)
Arir the Ithorian
(Who is in needof stylish clothes)
Rugbyman
Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:57 am
#2

truthfully, i soloed my way to master rifleman and i never kited. the melee defense was fantastic, but that is gone now. soloing used to mean simply getting buffed before going into the field, now maybe armor is the answer. i'm just glad i hit master last week before this patch came out.


che guevara, intrepid
Bamboozle
Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:47 am
#3

This is the way it should be. You were hard to hit because of the chance to hit a rifleman was bugged, not because of your melee defense.



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Barb-Wire
Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:59 am
#4

melee actually gets a rather nice bonus (depending on your POV) to hit ranged weapon users now and evidently this applies to NPC and monsters. its basically the same problem we faced when the 2.5X damage modifier existed. i dont think it is a bad thing over all just means that you will have to adapt to a new way of being successful.

this wont affect me too much since i use my pets as mobile armour and i have only once owned and used a fullset of armour. i prefer just not using it even when i am hunting without a pet. i also dont generally use doctor enhancements for every engagement. i would say about 40% of the time i am doctor buffed when hunting.

but we did know this was coming since the advantage we got for defense was due to a bug. maybe the fallout in a few days will stop the rise of rifle being skill of the month and it goes back to being an elite class when the non-dedicated people drain away in frustration because our class no longer offers the golden "I-Win Button". i just cant bring myself to seeing it as a real negative or class killer.

Message Edited by Barb-Wire on 03-17-2004 10:01 AM



Created Account July 2003 - Canceled account Nov 2005. The NGE made me do it.
Barb Wire
Former Dark Force Wielder
Ex-Imperial Navy
Seflyn
Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:02 am
#5


Bamboozle wrote:
This is the way it should be. You were hard to hit because of the chance to hit a rifleman was bugged, not because of your melee defense.




/agree.
Riflemen have had it far too easy when in melee range for a long time now.



_________________________________________________________
Seflyn - ?? - ?? - Chimaera.
Seflyn - Master Rifleman - Master Surgeon - Tarquinas.
The lies of SOE: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=GCW&message.id=222831
doltec
Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:00 am
#6

just meant to say i was surprised by it. i knew it was going to be in but i didnt realize i was going to be hit by every single attack launched at me. you'd think with +82 melee defense you would get missed occasionally.




Mac'hin Shinowea
(Me: I think I can take him)
(Matticus: Don't we are almost there)
(Me: Incapped.. nope slain i'll be there in a minute)
Arir the Ithorian
(Who is in needof stylish clothes)
Barb-Wire
Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:10 am
#7



doltec wrote:
just meant to say i was surprised by it. i knew it was going to be in but i didnt realize i was going to be hit by every single attack launched at me. you'd think with +82 melee defense you would get missed occasionally.





i guess i grew up with rifles where getting hit once was enough to kill from just about everything worth shooting at

but monsters have always had much higher attack values than players. try it out under controlled conditions with a friendly meleer and a friendly CH and test pet attacks. of course you will have to use non-be pets so they have the same attack abilities of wild pet.

i would be happy to test but im kinda not able to call my nice pets quite yet...



Created Account July 2003 - Canceled account Nov 2005. The NGE made me do it.
Barb Wire
Former Dark Force Wielder
Ex-Imperial Navy
Seflyn
Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:12 am
#8



doltec wrote:
just meant to say i was surprised by it. i knew it was going to be in but i didnt realize i was going to be hit by every single attack launched at me. you'd think with +82 melee defense you would get missed occasionally.




Ah but you see there has meant to be a bonus to hit for melee attacks against someone holding a rifle for a long time, it's finally working bringing some kind of balance to the rifleman profession.

I understand it's a bit of a shock, but let me assure you it's a great deal better than the 2.5x melee damage that used to be in it's place. And I really do believe it's a weakness badly needed by rifleman.



_________________________________________________________
Seflyn - ?? - ?? - Chimaera.
Seflyn - Master Rifleman - Master Surgeon - Tarquinas.
The lies of SOE: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=GCW&message.id=222831
Staveeno
Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:18 am
#9

I want to know how rifleman have it way to easy when we are REQUIRED to be buffed or take a crap load of spice or food to even function. I have a second account, Master Musician, which sole purpose it to give me a willpower/focus buff just so I can fire more than 5 shots at something. But if you are lucky like me and are buffed 100% of the time, yes, I am powerful, yes I have a strong weapon. But think about 90% of the other rifleman that don't have that option. The people that are complaining about rifleman are complaining about people like me. But it is the average of all the rifleman out there that you have to look at.




Bloodfin: Staveeno's Museum and Shop 884 -4788
1k Outside Coronet Correlia

Staveeno - Jedi
Lelei - Spy
Ekita - Salesperson, Architect, Shipright

Sotaudi
Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:23 am
#10






doltec wrote:

Ok , i read the patch notes and was no where even prepared for what i encountered last night when i went to hunt. I have been in the habit of group hunting and not bothering to buff. By the time a creature was close enough to actually damage me i was usually watching it slide to a halt at my feet dead. Well the power of the rifles hasn't gone away thank goodness, because the melee to hit bonus has made every piece of clothes my squad leader abilities absolutely worthless. with the rifleman tree we get +42 to melee defense, my clothes bring that up to 54 and stacked in group since i am a master squad leader up to +84 melee defense. Well if i had any defenses at all last night they were not appareant. Every creature that close enough to attack me hit me with their attack i didnt avoid, dodge, block anything all not every melee attack landed on me. I am used to having only 500 health and action but could count on at least one miss to enable me finish of the attacking creature. Well that strategy is gone. I have begun stat migration from my mind to health and action so i have more lee way and the possible ability to wear armor while unbuffed.


Has anyone else run into this and what are your new stats going to be?





As others stated, the fact that we were hard to hit with melee attacks at melee range was a bug. We have a +40 melee defense at Master Rifleman (by Rifle Special Abilities IV, actually). I believe this was intended to mitigate the 2.5x melee damage, then to offset some of the new to-hit bonus that replaced it. But they screwed something up, and removed the 2.5x melee modifier without getting the to-hit bonus working. This left us with a +40 melee defense, twice as high as the +20 I get as a Master Swordsman(even adding Master Brawler, I only get +27 melee defense from melee professions). So when the complaint from melee professions that we were able to tank better than they were was not much of an exaggeration, as is indicated from your observations.


However, in answer to your question, I am not changing anything myself. I leveled during the 2.5x melee modifier days, back when we had to level in the snow, and we did not have any shoes, and we had to use sticks for guns.... err...sorry... drifted there for a minute. Anyway, my strategy at that time was to switch to pistol as soon as something got within melee range. After I made Master Rifleman and realized that Pistols IV was never going to be enough and inefficient because I had to switch targeted pools, I decided to give up Ranger and Scout, and I started working on Master Swordsman then Master Brawler to round out my build.


Thus, I have rifle for long range, and Swordsman and Brawler skills for when they get within melee range. My health and action stats are slightly higher than many pure riflemen (700/500/400 for H & A, and 800/800/600 for Mind if I recall correctly). I do this so I do not kill myself with melee specials if I am not buffed.


Because I can go melee if they get in close, and because I usually do not do anything significant (espeically, PvP) unless I am buffed, I am personally not concerned about the change. But I leveled understanding that your chances of survival against melee drops dramatically if you are within melee range and you continue to hold onto your rifle. We had a reprieve from this principle for a time, and those who leveled between the time the melee damage modifier went away and now will need to adjust their thinking. But while those of us who experienced the 2.5x modifier may need to be a little less complacent, this is really nothing unfamiliar, and we are already used to dealing with it.






Sotaudi Crestlighter
Master Rifleman / Master Combat Medic
"The Physician's Pain Reference"

Former Professions
Master Doctor | Master Swordsman | Master Brawler
Master Scout | Ranger



Fitzdraco
Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:13 pm
#11

It seems that the AI has been changed to reflect the new modifiers. I have been doing Reb missions to get my faction up. It seems that when I fight there is a stormtrooper who is assigned to come up and engage me in melee while the others shoot at me from a distance. Can't say anything bad about it as it does make the game a little more interesting.



If there really is a God who created the entire universe with all of its glories, and He decides to deliver a message to humanity, He will not use, as His messenger, a person on cable TV with a bad hairstyle." - David Barry

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." - George
Carlin
Seflyn
Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:24 pm
#12

Most professions are required to be buffed to spam specials. (Carb, pike and swords are all not much fun unbuffed.)

Just save up and buy a crate of muon, a crate of +400 brandy and a crate of +600 Canape, there you go no mind cost at all.

Message Edited by Seflyn on 03-17-2004 09:25 PM



_________________________________________________________
Seflyn - ?? - ?? - Chimaera.
Seflyn - Master Rifleman - Master Surgeon - Tarquinas.
The lies of SOE: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=GCW&message.id=222831
Barb-Wire
Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:17 pm
#13

could also migrate some into focus and willpower. some races like human seem to be born to be rifle users while others like rodians probably wont do as well.



Created Account July 2003 - Canceled account Nov 2005. The NGE made me do it.
Barb Wire
Former Dark Force Wielder
Ex-Imperial Navy
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