Rifleman Archive

Although there are a lot of things broken/imbalanced/etc. in all of the marksman elite professions, I’d like to see how many of you support this attempt to possibly get our professions more balanced. I am posting this on the Carbineer, Pistoleer, and Rifleman boards to get a wide range of feedback. None of these ideas are original, I got pretty much all of them from surfing through the boards.

Pistol/Carbine/Rifle Accuracy Debate

One of the biggest gripes on the boards is that pistols are the most accurate (and powerful) weapons in the game from just about any range. Several correspondent logs have been shown to the public that support this statement.

Currently, whenever a person uses a special attack they get a 50% boost to accuracy. I propose that this boost be taken away from all professions to put accuracy back in its place. For instance, if you have a -100 accuracy modifier at 60 meters (lets say you’re holding a pistol) and use a Body Shot, you’re accuracy is at -50. However, if you’re holding a carbine (for example’s sake) and have a -50 modifier from 60 meters your accuracy drops to -25 after using Leg Shot. This is a -25 accuracy difference, the carbine being more accurate. Compare this to using auto-attack, where the accuracy difference is -50 with the carbine still being more accurate. This, essentially, makes the pistol-user gain twice as much accuracy just by using a special (-25 vs -50).

Currently, pistols and carbines are able to get insane accuracy boosts from ‘dabbling’ in the Bounty Hunter tree. I propose that Bounty Hunter weapon modifiers should only work with Bounty Hunter weapons and that they be given a special certification at novice status for a Bounty Hunter-only carbine (much like the Scatter Pistol).

Pistol/Carbine/Rifle Speed Debate

Another big problem is the speed of ranged weapons. Early in the game (when you’re still a novice Marksman swinging around a CDEF) speed is a pretty simple thing, look at how fast the gun says it’ll fire and chances are pretty good that it’ll fire at that speed. As you progress into your elite profession and master it, every marksman profession fires pretty much at the exact same speed (1 second per shot) due to huge increases in attack speed through skill modifiers. Since rifles were designed with naturally higher damage but slower speed, they gain a huge advantage over the other professions with virtually no speed penalty and large damage. Currently the devs are seeking to fix this problem by lowering the speed cap of pistols to a shot every half a second (0.5) and capping rifles at a shot every 3 seconds. Personally, I think this is a terrible idea.

The source of the problem is not in capping our speed, but instead is in the speed modifiers themselves. I propose that all speed modifiers for every profession be reduced by at least 50%, preferably more (in the 75% range). This would allow weapons such as the Rifleman’s Spraystick to still be effective while also preventing them from firing off T21’s every second. This would also benefit Pistoleers because they would still retain their speed advantage over all of the other professions, due to naturally faster weapons.

I also propose that, like my accuracy proposal, Bounty Hunter dabbling be negated by holding Bounty Hunter weapon speed modifiers to be specific to Bounty Hunter weapons and that they receive a special certification for a Bounty Hunter-only carbine (much like the Scatter Pistol). Phew, I bet you’re tired of hearing the words “Bounty Hunter” huh? I’ll address compensation for them later.

Broken/Useless/Unbalanced Skills

Simply put, there are broken skills in just about all of our trees. I propose that the devs take a look at all these skills and fix/replace/get rid of/make useful/make less useful certain skills. Examples of these would be:

Cover
Headshot III
Bodyshot III
Legshot III
Tumble to Prone
Tumble to Kneeling
Tumble to Standing
Flushing and/or Startling Shot

And many, many more …


Please note that these ideas will not completely solve all of the balance problems between our professions, but it certainly should be a step in the right direction. Please keep in mind that this post is simply about the elite marksmen professions, which is why I’m leaving out Commando and Bounty Hunter complaints. I am posting this in hopes that maybe our professions can come together and agree upon some common issues that need to be resolved, and after we’ve come to some sensible agreements (and the issues at hand are at least somewhat solved) we can discuss further additions to our professions that will help define ourselves more.

Bounty Hunters, you might think that I’m some kind of anti-dabbling agent. Please understand that dabblers, despite how many skill points they use, are killing the “pure” elite professions. Compensations could be made for those of you that would like to retain combat superiority, but as far as weapons go the current system is ridiculous. I have no problems with Bounty Hunters holding the upper hand on me in most, if not all, encounters. They are Bounty Hunters, after all. But pistols and carbines were not designed to fire with near 100% accuracy from all ranges, regardless of skill points used. Saying that they were is absurd. Again, I don’t want to bash Bounty Hunters, but the way things are right now is killing the battle between Riflemen, Pistoleers, and Carbineers.

So, whatcha’ think?

So far my threads have received little feedback, although I’ve been five-starred in all but the Riflemen forum. St00pid prissy Riflemen! Anyway, since the general census shows that these ideas aren’t crap and that we have a stable understanding of balance in this game, lets get crackin’ on the next topic. Defense!

Currently defense is pretty useless in the game. We have a few modifiers against knockdown, dizzy, stun, etc. but these skills don’t do much at the moment. Maybe they’re broken or just not effective enough to be useful? I propose that the devs fix these modifiers or make them more desirable to have. This is the smallest proposal out of the three, enjoy it while you can!

***

I’ve brought this idea up a few times on the Rifleman boards, but I didn’t get much input on the idea. A lot of the following text was copied and pasted from my old thread. I’d like to see how all of the other professions feel about Ranged Toughness. Melee characters have a toughness skill modifier that decreases the overall amount of melee damage they take per shot, so wouldn’t it make sense that an elite marksman profession should gain some modifier against ranged attacks? This would also help define the roles of certain marksman professions a bit more, with some of the close ranged gunners (Pistoleers and Carbineers) receiving more defense then, say, a Rifleman or Bounty Hunter.

The main reason I would like to see something like this implemented is to give Carbineers and Pistoleers a distinct use in large-scale battles. Decreasing the amount of damage you take in a 1 on 1 encounter would probably have minimal effect on the outcome, but when under heavy fire and with a well-organized group (Doctor buffs, Squad Leader bonuses, spices, damage being done to all pools, etc.) it would help enormously. Bounty Hunters, in their current state, receive few (if any) defensive modifiers. The modifiers that Pistoleers and Carbineers receive do very little to turn the tide in any battle situation. By giving the game’s front-line fighters some advantage in large-scale battle situations (being able to last longer under heavy fire then Bounty Hunters or Medics) we would actually have a reason to trek up the pistol and carbine path instead of being forced to become a Bounty Hunter to have a use in PvP.

****

Most current combat is extremely mobile, with marksman professions running n’ gunning in every direction. Only a fool stays immobile in current SWG PvP. This makes for an interesting problem in the combat system: lack of purpose in fighting for a crude stronghold. For instance, lets say you enter a hostile city and slaughter a few bad guys, and get a /tell from a friend saying that a large rebel force is on the way to combat you. The natural reaction from everybody is to either flee immediately (assuming you know you’re outgunned terribly) or wait for the enemy to get within combat range before everybody takes off sprinting and firing their guns. I’d like to propose that either the prone and kneeling stances receive more defense (to make them viable alternatives to constant running) or give an ability in the Marksman tree that provides an immobilized, but extremely defensive state from which to fire from. This state could decrease all ranged damage done to the person by 50% or more, provide additional to-hit and chance-to-be-hit modifiers, or a combination of both. With more viable options in combat, we will see a ton of new tactics come forth. Melee could possibly have a purpose in PvP. Buildings could be defended easier. City invasions could be won not by one’s pure numbers, but by preparation and holding key locations with a few dug-in Carbineers. Obviously a skill like this would be given modifiers from certain elite marksman professions. Personally I’d like this to be biased towards the Carbineer to help them become more of a mainstay trooper (like they were envisioned to be).

****

Cover is a pretty useless skill at the moment, and I don’t think that the devs’ plan to increase its defense penalties is going to help much. Since the Rifleman tree has two branches that refer to sniping (Sniping Accuracy and Concealment) I propose that the Cover state gives radar stealth. It should not completely make the character invisible, disable auto (tab) targeting, or prevent counter-attacking, but it should at least help them get the drop on their targets better. My suggestion is that when Cover is first acquired, it only provides a 55m+ radar stealth so that he is only off of radar from distances of 55 meters or more. Every +20 points to Cover should grant a small (about 5 meters, less if needed) increase in the distance that a Covered person is radar stealthed. 20 points is the equivalent of 1 box of Concealment, for those that aren’t aware. Also, this would give the Rifleman’s skill Surprise Shot (which is currently broken) a purpose.

For balancing, we could make all attack styles unusable while Covered, so that only auto-attacking or Surprise Shot are options. Also, after a single Surprise Shot the Cover state could be removed (this was how the skill initially worked before they ‘fixed’ it). To further hinder the complete dominance of radar stealth, the skill should fail frequently (as it currently does, it usually takes 300 Health and Action and three tries to finally achieve Cover status) and have a timer on it.

And just a FYI to all the other Riflemen, I’m not trying to transform this profession into *just* a sniper. A lot of people feel that the Rifleman’s role is to provide support fire, which is actually pretty true to SoE’s vision of the profession. However, it is also indisputable that they wanted rifles to have a partially sniper element behind him. Currently Rifleman have absolutely no elements of a sniper, and are solely support gunners. I’m just trying to bring out a couple of unused skills (Surprise Shot and Cover) and mold them to fit the one niche that we assumed we’d have at least a small home at, sniping. I’m all for being support gunners, but as long as we have branches like Sniping Accuracy, Concealment, and Counter-Sniping then we ought to have at least a small job as the SWG sniper.



Ok, that’s it! No bashing please, just support or suggestions to help make this small project of mine better. Please try to keep things on topic, which is currently on how to make defense an option in PvP and/or PvE for the elite marksman professions.

RaskasBW...

You made the comment:
"Since rifles were designed with naturally higher damage but slower speed, they gain a huge advantage over the other professions with virtually no speed penalty and large damage."

Obviously, as a Rifleman who feels beshat upon in the past, I have a different point of view. I don't want to get into an in depth discussion, as I need to leave and go do other things in my life, but I feel that your view of this situation is very narrow and ignores many othervariables (in other words, what you said is true, BUT....) . Not only do we have poorer accuracy and the 2.5x melee damage,but the speed enhancements also mean we wipe out our unhealable blue Mind barmuch faster. Then we sit around and recover for several minutes while the pistoleers and carbineers, etc., are of stimming their H&A bars and merrily blasting enemies.

All of these have been addressed numerous, numerous times in the forums, so I won't say more here.

Yes, we do have problems with the HAM bar, if that's what you're inferring. However, what I also stated was that at master status all professions fire at the exact same rate (1 shot every second, which is the hard cap). Basically rifles were designed to do alot of damage, ata very slow rate of fire. If you want some proof then just compare the damage and speed of a rifle against the damage and speed of a pistol of similar level, you will notice that rifles tend to have higher damage but lower speed.

At master status do we drain our unhealable HAM pool incredibly fast and thus become quickly useless? Yes! This is why I proposed that we fix this problem with everybody firing at the exact same speed. Is it unfair that we take chunks of our unhealable pool with every special we use? Yes! Is it fair that a rifle (which was designed to fire slowly, but dealgreater damage per shot) fire at the exact same speed as a pistol (which was designed to fire quickly, but deal less damage per shot)? No! By putting our speeds back in line with what they were designed to do we alleviate two huge problems with both Pistoleer and Rifleman, and that is the unfair firing speed of rifles at master status and how quickly we, as Riflemen, drain our HAM bar.

So I'm not exactly sure what the problem is. Are you complaining about the HAM costs of Rifleman or my neglect to mention it? If it's because I forgot to mention it then I'm sorry, it honestly just slipped my mind. HAM costs should, and will, go into my next post.

Oh, and the 2.5x melee penelty is actually quite fair. It's the bugthat heavy weapons (LLC comes to mind) can do melee damage from 16+ meters and warping mobs that agitates the festering hatred of the 2.5x melee penelty. Nobody really complained about it much before the warping mobs showed up, but those are bugs that don't stem specifically from the elite Marksman professions.

Wow, I’m amazed that so far I haven’t received any flaming on any of the boards! Yay for civil discussion!

This will be my last big post before I compile all the feedback I’ve gotten and start a new thread on each board with the complete range of input I’ve received from all of you. Once approved by the masses I’ll submit it to the SWG Discussion board and pray that it doesn’t get buried in 3 minutes.

Pistoleer Dual Wielding

A pretty simple proposal that has been floating around and even submitted to the devs via correspondent, giving the ability for master Pistoleers to wield two pistols would bring some much needed attractiveness to mastering the profession and a sense of accomplishment to those that gain it. I have two specific ideas on how to implement this.

1) Give a certification at master status for a new type of pistol that has much lower damage then any of the Pistoleer’s other guns, but is the only pistol capable of being dual wielded. Weaponsmiths could customize this specific gun in the crafting process to change its damage type so that it would be more diverse. The viable damage types should be limited to types that make sense for the weapon, so you aren’t spraying acid or lightening with a Laser Pistol, for instance. The amount of different damage types is pretty much up to whatever seems sensible to the devs, and whatever they happen to name the weapon. This weapon’s overall damage should be 40% lower then the most damaging pistol currently implemented to essentially make duel wielding the guns 20% more effective overall then the strongest pistol (each pistol does 60% of the damage, equaling 120% effectiveness while holding both pistols). Accuracy modifiers on these weapons should slightly be lower then that of regular pistols to compensate for their coolness and power.

Or

2) Make duel wielding a passive skill gained at master status that allows any weapon to be duel wielded, but subtracts 40% from the overall damage done per shot with each weapon while duel wielding. Again, this makes dual wielding pistols 20% more effective overall then a solo gun. A small negative to-hit modifier should be applied when dual wielding to compensate for this ability.

Carbine Shield Attachments

I haven’t seen this anywhere on the boards, but I thought it might be a cool option for the Carbineers. In a nutshell, this ability would allow carbines to be attached with different sizes and shapes of metal shields to provide additional to-hit defenses and possibly some damage absorption while assaulting heavily fortified areas. It’s hard to explain exactly, but visualize a mounted machine gun with metal plates around it to protect the gunner from head-on attacks. Basically it’s like that, but obviously with the smaller carbine guns and smaller plates. Shield fitted guns should provide a very noticeable boost to one’s defense and possibly a bunch of new abilities that allow grouped Carbineers to help block each other from incoming shots at the cost of accuracy and movement speed (something small, like a 5-10% decrease in movement speed). Much like the previous proposal, this would help bring some eye candy and a sense of identity for the carbine users. My guide to implementing this is as follows:

1) Plant several certifications along the Carbineer tree that allows them to use certain shield attachments to their guns. In order to use a shield-fitted carbine effectively (damage-wise and defense-wise) they must have both the weapon certification and the shield certification of that particular gun. More advanced shields would provide more eye candy and heavier defenses. The type of shield on a gun would show up in the weapon’s examine window, much like a powerup.

2) The next step can be done in one of two ways, actually. This is simply the way that a carbine is fitted with a shield.

a) Provide a Weaponsmith with the option to attach shield components (made by an Armorsmith most likely) to carbines during the crafting process.
b) Allow Armorsmiths to craft the shields, and attach the shields as carbine-only powerups that expire after the gun or the person wielding the gun has taken 100 hits.

Rifleman Ghuile Suits

Rifleman have been asking for this for awhile, so lets give them some loving! For those that don’t know what a Ghuile suit is, just think of a guy wearing a bush or laying under a leaf-covered blanket to hide himself. Basically it’s a form of visual stealth.

There is a number of ways that this could be done, but the result should be something that gives the Riflemen that want to be snipers a way to take targets by surprise more often. If my previous ‘Radar Stealth when Covered’ proposal is passed then this could fit in nicely with it. Basically the ghuile suit could be made by a tailor, ranger, or a combination of the two and be sold to Riflemen with the required certification (given at master status or Concealment IV). For balance reasons and as a way to keep these suits in demand, they can work like tents (one time use per suit) and only when the person is in the Covered state. The ghuile suit would deploy, a nice little bush would cover up the person, and anybody that tried to target them would get a low-level creature lair as their target until the ghuile effect is removed. All target info would look like a lair, including the examine window and HAM bar (which would take the highest HAM pool of the person and use it as the displayed bar). To balance this out a bit, any movement and/or combat would immediately get rid of the ghuile effect. If radar stealth isn’t implemented for whatever reason, then a Rifleman in ghuile-mode would be turned into a yellow square on everyone’s radar to further convince wandering travelers.




I meant to post this yesterday actually, but unfortunantly I got a bit distracted at work. Better late then never I suppose, lol. Whatcha’ think?