Rifleman Archive
Thread: DPS and Speed Caps
pentjaksilat wrote:
now this doesn't mean your shots would have to be 3x as powerful as pistols and carbines twice as powerful as pistols, b/c in essence, for every 3pistols specials, you don't get 1 rifle shot, but 1 rifle special and 2 auto-attacks. now i know auto-attack only does 1.5x the weapon stats (so roughly...400dmg/shot?) but that's around 800dmg added into the mix, same goes for carbines for every other shot.
and your HAM cost wouldn't have to be equal, rather they'd have to be 3x if you wanted "balance"...now that's assuming roughly the same modifier for strafe2 as for fanshot or stoppingshot, but w/ rifles having 3x the pistol HAM cost...or 1.5x the special move modifier and 2x the HAM cost...you get the picture, any mix that yields "balanced" drain. draining the same/special as a pistoleer wouldn't be balance since you're only getting drain once every 3seconds.
~pentjak
you have got to be kidding. Your points as stated are rediculous. 3x the HAM costs for RMbecause we will drain sloweras a resultof the speed cap. andYOU are speaking on the subject of balance. 1 Rifle special and 2 auto attacks, please. This is almost too rediculous to comment on, you don't auto attack during a special delay. So no, you don't calculate 2 auto-attacks into the DPS of a special every 3 seconds.
And btw, MRM do NOT fire strafe2 every second. Now a MM/MR get close but you still need a rifle speed attachment, +3 or +4 i believe, in order to hit the speed cap with strafe2. unless you are using a spray stick.
hoenix
JuCat wrote:
MarcoRenaldi wrote:
Well since the spd cap seems inevitable I bet they are planning on killing or accuracy up close. Which unless we can one shot a fully buffed melee person we are f*cked. Basically it goes like this I see the melee I get one shot at 64 meters bam I hit him for X amount of dmg but did not kill him. By the time I get my next shot he is at around 30 meters. Well guess what my accuracy is now crap and I miss. By the time i get my next shot he is on top of me and I might as well shot myself as I have no hope of living through this.exactly, which is why they fixed us in the first place. They might as well change our title to master suicide artist!
Rifleman aren't meant to fire while on the move. hence no accuracy while moving mods. So what are rifleman supposed to do once all these nerfs take place? Kite ya, don't think so.
Congrats to all the nerf callers!! You took one of the only semi-working as intended classes, and the only class that actually mastering mattered and balanced it with the rest of the broken classes!!!
None of you nerf callers look at the situation, from a riflemans perspective. Yeah our accuracy at short range is broke but that is it, otherwise we were finally semi-fixed, after months of being incapped by kaduus for god sake. All you know is you keep getting beat by RM, when the only tactic you seem to have the ability to comprehend is bum rush, warcry, KD, dizzy, spam best special.
Hell the Def cap would have been enough, so all the fotm rifleman would migrate to the next fotm. Mean while you take the rest of us day one rifleman and bend us over.
We've all known about the combat revamp along time now but you seem to be the proffesion that whines most about it even though you don't really know anything about it at all yet. Maybe you should wait and see how it will turn out instead of just whining about it. This might actually help pvp in a good way making all proffesions balanced out but I guess you riflemen don't want that at all you just want to be able to kill everyone else by spamming headshots. Personally I'm looking forward to the combat revamp even if they add the speed caps, as a carbineer I would be capped at 2 seconds and I wouldn't really have a problem with that.
Cairn Trenor
and im all for it... it would look cool too.
Im also for us being the one hitter quiters... same with swordsman... Big hit + big reload= quick deaths... but not sustained damage.
We should be the medium-heavy nukes... (only out damaged by BH LLC and comando heavy guns)
Think about having your pall the pistoleer plunking away at a mob with your other TKA pal keeping it from rushing the ranged guys... then when its down to a kill able level (a little less than half).... KA-FRAG! KA-FRAG! you fire 2 well placed shots into mob beast and it dies...
Adding damage bonuses and speed limits will add more tactics to over all combat and im all for it.
CairnTrenor wrote:
We've all known about the combat revamp along time now but you seem to be the proffesion that whines most about it even though you don't really know anything about it at all yet. Maybe you should wait and see how it will turn out instead of just whining about it. This might actually help pvp in a good way making all proffesions balanced out but I guess you riflemen don't want that at all you just want to be able to kill everyone else by spamming headshots. Personally I'm looking forward to the combat revamp even if they add the speed caps, as a carbineer I would be capped at 2 seconds and I wouldn't really have a problem with that.
Cairn Trenor
So It is sensable to take a profession that was broke, I mean broke, unplayable without a group or a tank. Finally fix that profession for the most part, then have the profession trashed again. All you are seeing here is "yeah, there nerfing rifleman without considering how it will affect the profession. "going around spamming headshots" is a waste, and not a good approach, unless you are solo against a group tef, and even then just spamming headshot is stupid. And these people you seem to think are running around killing everyone with headshot, are NOT just rifleman. they are most likely RM combined with TKA/CM/DOC/ or fencer. And your problem is not the Rifle, it the stacking that make you miss at least half your shots.
Let me put it to you another way, after publish 7 and the carbineer fix, if in fact it does give carbs the fixes they deserve its great, but let them get used to being fixed, have all the fotm club, join up and then have all those fixes taken back away from you leaving you to just "whine" about it. And no, none of these changes have taken place yet, but it's not to hard to see how it will affect the profession. And not wanting my chosen profession ruined, so that it can be balanced with the rest of the broken professions is not whining. The only thing that was needed to balance rifleman was to fix our accuracy at short range, then once all the professions were fixed it would have been balanced.
JuCat wrote:
CairnTrenor wrote:
We've all known about the combat revamp along time now but you seem to be the proffesion that whines most about it even though you don't really know anything about it at all yet. Maybe you should wait and see how it will turn out instead of just whining about it. This might actually help pvp in a good way making all proffesions balanced out but I guess you riflemen don't want that at all you just want to be able to kill everyone else by spamming headshots. Personally I'm looking forward to the combat revamp even if they add the speed caps, as a carbineer I would be capped at 2 seconds and I wouldn't really have a problem with that.
Cairn TrenorSo It is sensable to take a profession that was broke, I mean broke, unplayable without a group or a tank. Finally fix that profession for the most part, then have the profession trashed again. All you are seeing here is "yeah, there nerfing rifleman without considering how it will affect the profession. "going around spamming headshots" is a waste, and not a good approach, unless you are solo against a group tef, and even then just spamming headshot is stupid. And these people you seem to think are running around killing everyone with headshot, are NOT just rifleman. they are most likely RM combined with TKA/CM/DOC/ or fencer. And your problem is not the Rifle, it the stacking that make you miss at least half your shots.
Let me put it to you another way, after publish 7 and the carbineer fix, if in fact it does give carbs the fixes they deserve its great, but let them get used to being fixed, have all the fotm club, join up and then have all those fixes taken back away from you leaving you to just "whine" about it. And no, none of these changes have taken place yet, but it's not to hard to see how it will affect the profession. And not wanting my chosen profession ruined, so that it can be balanced with the rest of the broken professions is not whining. The only thing that was needed to balance rifleman was to fix our accuracy at short range, then once all the professions were fixed it would have been balanced.
You seem to misunderstand what I meant, this combat revamp affects all combat proffesions not just riflemen, and we don't even know how it will turn out yet. Maybe it will be great maybe it won't but that is still to see. And saying that they should fix other proffesions instead of nerfing rifleman is good and all but ever considered maybe thats what they are doing, and fixing rifleman to fit in with their view of how a rifleman should interact with the rest of the combat proffesions. Instead seeing this as a giant nerf to rifleman think of it as something that might actually balance combat in a good way.
Cairn Trenor
CairnTrenor wrote:
JuCat wrote:
CairnTrenor wrote:
We've all known about the combat revamp along time now but you seem to be the proffesion that whines most about it even though you don't really know anything about it at all yet. Maybe you should wait and see how it will turn out instead of just whining about it. This might actually help pvp in a good way making all proffesions balanced out but I guess you riflemen don't want that at all you just want to be able to kill everyone else by spamming headshots. Personally I'm looking forward to the combat revamp even if they add the speed caps, as a carbineer I would be capped at 2 seconds and I wouldn't really have a problem with that.
Cairn Trenor
So It is sensable to take a profession that was broke, I mean broke, unplayable without a group or a tank. Finally fix that profession for the most part, then have the profession trashed again. All you are seeing here is "yeah, there nerfing rifleman without considering how it will affect the profession. "going around spamming headshots" is a waste, and not a good approach, unless you are solo against a group tef, and even then just spamming headshot is stupid. And these people you seem to think are running around killing everyone with headshot, are NOT just rifleman. they are most likely RM combined with TKA/CM/DOC/ or fencer. And your problem is not the Rifle, it the stacking that make you miss at least half your shots.
Let me put it to you another way, after publish 7 and the carbineer fix, if in fact it does give carbs the fixes they deserve its great, but let them get used to being fixed, have all the fotm club, join up and then have all those fixes taken back away from you leaving you to just "whine" about it. And no, none of these changes have taken place yet, but it's not to hard to see how it will affect the profession. And not wanting my chosen profession ruined, so that it can be balanced with the rest of the broken professions is not whining. The only thing that was needed to balance rifleman was to fix our accuracy at short range, then once all the professions were fixed it would have been balanced.
You seem to misunderstand what I meant, this combat revamp affects all combat proffesions not just riflemen, and we don't even know how it will turn out yet. Maybe it will be great maybe it won't but that is still to see. And saying that they should fix other proffesions instead of nerfing rifleman is good and all but ever considered maybe thats what they are doing, and fixing rifleman to fit in with their view of how a rifleman should interact with the rest of the combat proffesions. Instead seeing this as a giant nerf to rifleman think of it as something that might actually balance combat in a good way.
Cairn Trenor
My problem is that how can you fix and blance another profession to that fix without adequatetesting, and please do not suggest TC as that is a joke. In any experiment you change only one variable at a time to get adequate results.
Lets say all the professions are fixed and rifleman are balanced. Now lets say the rifleman is underpowered or ata severe disadvantage to the other prof's now. What do you think the devs are gonna do?Fix the rifleman or nerf everyone??? I think the devs track record speaks for itself. Atleast if you space it out the nerfs will be fewer and probably much better for everyone as oppose to the chain of nerfs we have seen over the past few months.
MarcoRenaldi wrote:
Well since the spd cap seems inevitable I bet they are planning on killing or accuracy up close. Which unless we can one shot a fully buffed melee person we are f*cked. Basically it goes like this I see the melee I get one shot at 64 meters bam I hit him for X amount of dmg but did not kill him. By the time I get my next shot he is at around 30 meters. Well guess what my accuracy is now crap and I miss. By the time i get my next shot he is on top of me and I might as well shot myself as I have no hope of living through this.
exactly, which is why they fixed us in the first place. They might as well change our title to master suicide artist!
Rifleman aren't meant to fire while on the move. henceno accuracy while moving mods. So what are rifleman supposed to do once all these nerfstake place? Kite ya, don't think so.
Congrats to all the nerf callers!! You took one of the only semi-working as intended classes, and the only class that actually mastering mattered and balanced it with the rest of the broken classes!!!
None of you nerf callers look at the situation, from a riflemans perspective. Yeah our accuracy at short range is broke but that is it, otherwise we were finally semi-fixed, after months of being incapped by kaduus for god sake. All you know is you keep getting beat by RM, when the only tactic you seem to have the ability to comprehend is bum rush, warcry, KD, dizzy, spam best special.
Hell the Def cap would have been enough, so all the fotm rifleman would migrate to the next fotm. Mean while you take the rest of us day one rifleman and bend us over.