Rifleman Archive

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dmax999 wrote:

There has been a lot of talk about slowing down riflemen a lot and putting them into a sniper only role.

There is one really big road-block to this. 64m. A master rifleman cannot take the best made rifle in the game and shoot farther then the worst CDEF pistol in the hands of the worst shot in the game. In addition it takes about 3 secs for anyone to cover the entire range of a rifle. The effectively makes it impossible for someone to act only as a slow shooting sniper with rifleman.

(Effectively making a Barret .50 have the same range as a .22 pistol)

It would be different if they could shoot out to 500m or more, which would be much more realistic. However, due to limitations in the combat system this can't happen. Because of this rifleman needs an infantry role with autofire fast shooting weapons just like other classes.

And as I stated before if DPS were to be equal between rifle and pistols with the speed caps suggested a rifle shot would have to do about 15000 per hit. Since that is not really reasonable a different solution besides the suggested speed caps needs to be looked at.

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500m is heavily pushing it. Most rifleman can incap someone in under 5 seconds at about 30m away.

If pistoleers and carbineers want to keep trying to bring up "real life" situations, I'm more then willing to play along.

US army boot camp requires every soldier to hit a human sized target at 300m using iron sites on an M-16. That is every soldier using the common weapon for the Army. Snipers get much improved weapons with scopes and such attached, 500m is not stretching it at all, as a matter of fact it is understating what they can do. In Viet-Nam one sniper made a shot using a .50 rifle at over a mile distance (This being an exception more then the rule though)

There is no sniper that will shoot at 60m with a bolt action rifle in the world, yet I keep hearing how that would make sense in real life. The simple fact is this combat system does not follow real life and that is my point.

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dmax999 wrote:

If pistoleers and carbineers want to keep trying to bring up "real life" situations, I'm more then willing to play along.

US army boot camp requires every soldier to hit a human sized target at 300m using iron sites on an M-16. That is every soldier using the common weapon for the Army. Snipers get much improved weapons with scopes and such attached, 500m is not stretching it at all, as a matter of fact it is understating what they can do. In Viet-Nam one sniper made a shot using a .50 rifle at over a mile distance (This being an exception more then the rule though)

There is no sniper that will shoot at 60m with a bolt action rifle in the world, yet I keep hearing how that would make sense in real life. The simple fact is this combat system does not follow real life and that is my point.

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Yes I understand, but this isn't a simulation of an army game. What I believe is that the rifleman should shoot up to about 90 - 100m no more, and they can only do this in a covered position. When they get in the covered position they can go somewhat invisible and lock on their target, they can fire off a few conceal shots and until the rifleman is spotted we can continously do this. Now, without getting to uber at this, when we do get spotted from this conceal position we get a 5 - 10 second speed decrease to even the odds until we get out of the covered position. (mind you when we are in the covered position we have +100 accuracy.)

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dmax999 wrote:

In Viet-Nam one sniper made a shot using a .50 rifle at over a mile distance (This being an exception more then the rule though)

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dmax999 wrote:

There has been a lot of talk about slowing down riflemen a lot and putting them into a sniper only role.

There is one really big road-block to this. 64m. A master rifleman cannot take the best made rifle in the game and shoot farther then the worst CDEF pistol in the hands of the worst shot in the game. In addition it takes about 3 secs for anyone to cover the entire range of a rifle. The effectively makes it impossible for someone to act only as a slow shooting sniper with rifleman.

(Effectively making a Barret .50 have the same range as a .22 pistol)

It would be different if they could shoot out to 500m or more, which would be much more realistic. However, due to limitations in the combat system this can't happen. Because of this rifleman needs an infantry role with autofire fast shooting weapons just like other classes.

And as I stated before if DPS were to be equal between rifle and pistols with the speed caps suggested a rifle shot would have to do about 15000 per hit. Since that is not really reasonable a different solution besides the suggested speed caps needs to be looked at.

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i can't even see someone 500m's away

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ElrohirSoR wrote:

In the US Army Sharpshooter contest soliders compete with m16at 1500m, an M16 the standard assault rifle not a specialized sniper rifle. I almost **edit** my pants when i read that in my monthy Soldier magazine, I barely manage to hit targets at 300m during qualification. Anyhow Dmax999 has a very good point, there's no way to implement a sniper mode in this game with the current 64m limitation, not when anyone with a pistol can shot at you, not when it only takes a TKM 3 seconds to get to your position, and especially not when a combat medic can toss a poison/disease the same distance. Honestly im getting sick of everyone trying to get rifleman to be a slow sniper, it just cant work with the combat limitation of this game.

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Those M16's are not standard issue assault rifles, and not open sights. Those rifle's are scoped, and "tuned".1500m is about the effective range of.223 round,much farther than that and the bullet will start to dive.

still it drives home that fact that a rifle should be able to fire at a FAR FAR FAR greater range then a pistol. Sure those m16 are fine tuned and using specialized ammo but it's probably a lot worse off still then an specialized sniper rifle or there would be no need for one. Also in this game we are using energy rifles, like lasers, they are not effected by wind or gravity would would make them a cake to aim and hit in my idea. No compensating for wind or gravity.

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DVader539 wrote:

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ElrohirSoR wrote:
Also in this game we are using energy rifles, like lasers, they are not effected by wind or gravity would would make them a cake to aim and hit in my idea. No compensating for wind or gravity.

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*cough*
Light is affected by gravity. That's what makes black holes black.
But point is still valid, we don't have any major gravity wells near where we'd be fighting...

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You and your PHYSICS....... and your muffin and tea law of REL-A-TIVE-ITY.

-Incoherent slander by pyschojuggalo

i was an M60 gunner in the MPs in the army and we often played around with our M16s on the M60 ranges where pop-ups extended out to 1000m. hitting targets at that range is quite possible with iron sites non-special ammo and service issue weapons that fire more blanks than real bullets. its not easy but getting 5-7 hits out of a 30 round magazine was about the average for me with a M16 at extreme range.

i just think that we as SWG rifle users fill both roles but not in the traditional one-shot one kill rule.

we fill the machine gun role with our massive rate of fire and AOE attacks. and we fill the role of sniper with specials like Headshot3 devastating a single target in short order.

what we REALLY need are dedicated specials that can target any of the three pools on one target as needed. basically a version of headshot3 for each of the pools and our AOE attack. couple this with some extreme weaknesses at close and short ranges to offset us being copies of carbineers and pistoleers. right now as we progress thru the trees our specials are useful before master but half are redundant and useless once we get master.

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ElrohirSoR wrote:
Also in this game we are using energy rifles, like lasers, they are not effected by wind or gravity would would make them a cake to aim and hit in my idea. No compensating for wind or gravity.

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*cough*
Light is affected by gravity. That's what makes black holes black.
But point is still valid, we don't have any major gravity wells near where we'd be fighting...