Rifleman Archive
Thread: Eyeshot Post by a BH
I understand alot of riflemen are concerned with the bounty hunter's ability to do mind damage, and efficiently at that.
I also understand that many people are frustrated with the lack of a real defense against it.
I am making this post because I believe the riflemen community and the BH community are two parts of one big community, not seperate communities altogether.
Thus, it would behoove us to work together on problems and percieved problems.
The reason we have mindshot is because BH is supposed to be a compact combination of all marksman based professions. We get the offense, but note that there is no defense bonus anywhere in our tree.
The problem with mindshot is not the ability. The problem stems from the dev recognized fact that there is currently no way to heal mind damage.
BH, it seems, being the compact representation of all marksman based professions minus defense and with only a few special moves, is in the position to catch slack from the entire community any time there is a ranged imbalance. We're the nerf check catch all.
The thing is, it is not the ability.
We need an outcrying from both the rifleman and BH communities for the devs to hurry and add a way to heal mind damage.
The reality is, if BH gets a nerf to eyeshot, it will eventually turn into a nerf for headshot. Shat rolls downhill.
We should curb that, prevent that, and circumvent that by getting to the core of the problem, which I stress, is that there is no way to heal mind damage.
If we band together and stay focused, we can get some shat done.
Eyeshot is a problem because with buffs and heals you can fire it indefinitely.
Have it drain from mindpool.
Healthshot drains from health, Actionshot from action, eyeshot ought to drain from mind.
If eyeshot did the same damage-per-ham and damage-per-second as headshot3 and also drained the mindpool, we wouldn't have as much issue with it.
But the fact is that Eyeshot is significantly better than anything Riflemen have.
You are a 0121 BH. This is not a huge investment. I am a 4424 rifleman, that was a pain in the arse. I see no reason why your attack should be hugely better than my similar attack. You don't even have to risk taking 2.5x melee damage to do it andI do.
I'm also a 0342 swordsman, this was also a pain in the arse.
This gives me a lot of extra melee defense, state defenseand ranged defense skills that BH's do not have.
You know what?
Those skills mean nothing.
That makes sense, and I can even (reluctantly) agree with that.
Question though... Does the rifleman headshot drain the mind pool?
It's not based on mind pool drain. it's based on HAM for the weapon we use to do it (pistol).
Rifle's are heavy on the mind pool if mind pool is made healable then that problem goes away then.
I do not think making mindpool healable is the answer. It would take away a large part of teh uniqueness of both the rifleman class and the eyeshot move.
Like the old knockdowns, eyeshot upsets people because there is no defense against it, no way to counter it, aand it garuntees victory for said BH.
I don't mind losing, what gets me upset is when I can't imagine anything I could have possibly done wrong and I still died without getting a shot off.
Yes, headshot drains mind pool
-Logoseen Ospooro
Duck! It's the Nerf Bat. RUUUUUUUUN!
I can tell you with certainty that there is a natural counter for eyeshot, and it is a simple mind bleed. Any, really.
A BH may win the fight, but that BH will die, as well.
I say this from experience. Mind bleeds are rough to deal with.
Considering the way eyeshot drains the action pool (and heavily at that), I would be lead to believe that an action bleed would work even better.
Trust me, I have lost my share of fights to mind bleeds. THAT is near impossible to counter... Drop target /firstaid five times, get target back, and fight all without dying in the process? Impossible.
Nonetheless, there is an issue.
If the HAM costs for the move were moved to mind without lowering the number it takes, it would make the skill useless, as well. However, I think I can agree that moving it to mind with a reasonable cost would make sense.
Eyeshot is meant to have the power of headshot2 with the speed and HAM cost of a pistol... It's certainly unconventional, but BH is an unconventional class.
Nonetheless, I think if a BH were going toe to toe with a rifleman using eyeshot, with the rifleman using headshot 3, if both have the same mind values, then the rifleman should win hands down.
Has anyone tested to see if this happens? I mean exact same mind, and only using those moves?
I dont' think they would ever make mind healable. What would be the tradeoff?
Furthermore, mind, focus, and willpower cannot be buffed currently (with 1 exception being a very hard to find master chef food item), wheras health action constitution quickness strength and stamina can all be buffed significantly (up to 2000 from my experience).
so a buffed bh can do eyeshot continuously for the 2 hours of the buff and effectively not lose any ham from doing it. contrast that with a buffed rifleman trying to headshot for the 10 minutes the mind buff lasts. 500 extra mindpool is like 5-7 more shots. assuming the rifleman has 1600 600 600 mind/foc/will with the chef buff, he will still have to sit and recharge his mindpool before the buff runs out were he to headshot over and over and over. if there are any other non-spice mind buffs, please let me know so i can start using them 
i won't go into the unbuffed advantages of eyeshot over headshot, as they have already been made here.
i don't know how bh thinks that they are in the same boat as rifleman. this is like comparing a bicycle to a moped. sure they both get you from point a to point b, but when you are on a bike you have to pedal. there's a tradeoff with rifleman doing mind damage that just isn't apparant with the bounty hunters.
Well, if mind heals are not the solution (which they are doing... I'll go dig up the thread in just a sec), instead of nerfing eyeshot to the point of uselessness, would it make more sense to move mindshot 3 costs to the action pool, and adjust the costs accordingly?
BRB... Gonna dig up that thread 8)
If by "die" you mean "go incap'd after the fight and then get up 30 seconds later" then yes, the BH will "die" while the Rifleman will be sent to the cloning center.
And yes I have "tested" that. Basically it's what happens in every fight with a BH where I try to go toe to toe. I spam Headshot3, they spam Eyeshot.
BH will win that fight 100% of the time. It doesn't matter if the rifleman uses a Jawa Rifle, a DLT20a, a Laser Rifle or a T21, they will still lose. This is largely attributed to the fact that the more damaging rifles also drain more mind pool. I shoot, I lose mind. You shoot, I lose more mind. It's a losing proposition.
The only way to beat a Bounty Hunter is to mind bleed them and run away and hope they're too slow to follow you. But like I always say "anything works against idiots". This isn't a game winning strategy because smart BH's can always beat it just by chasing you and spamming Eyeshot on the run. They'll have time to incap and deathblow the rifleman before they become incap'd from the bleed.
...I should say -OR- adjust the HAM costs of action shot...
Keep in mind, though, that not everyone has the option to play with full buffs constantly. I, for one, rarely come across doctors, and as a BH with BH expenses, constant food and spice buffs are unattainable unless I devote myself to making sure I have them (which would require enough time to maintain that in the time I make master BH, I could have made it three times otherwise)