Rifleman Archive
Thread: Pistol people suck
Some answers & questions. We do want to discuss several of the "useless" designations you've made...
- We've already fixed bodyshot 3, unless we're confused on what you're saying. Bodyshot 1 does 1.5x the damage of a regular shot, bodyshot 2 does 2x, and bodyshot 3 does 2.5 in the current code (not what is on Live, but the current code internally). So if that does not match what you see on Live, you should be getting that as part of the next update.
- Disarming shot 2 -- the costs were too high, so we have brought them in line with disarming shot 1. We are very very very reluctant to make a command that actually zaps the weapn out of someone's hand. Currently, it damages the opponent's weapon. This may not be tactically significant enough, or may be simply just griefy. But we're worried about the impact of a true disarming shot and how powerful it would be. Thoughts on this?
- Fanshot currently does 4x the damage of a regular shot, and stopping shot does 5x... at least internally. I assume when you say it's useless, you must be using some other metric than damage per shot. Is the issue the speed of firing?
- The designer is unsure we should jack the damage on health shot 2 because the majority of the damage is supposed to come from the DoT, not the initial damage. If we jack the damage, then it all goes up a fair amount. Could you offer some suggestions on actual numbers here?
- We're checking into everything marked "broken."
-Raph Koster,
Creative Director
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God is it jsut me or does everyone else get the devs attention? We are stuck with low fire rates, LOW accuracy, and a pretty crap-tacular main weapon (t-21 kind a sucks) but then again my server has never been able to make um cause of resources. I swear do the Pistols and BH and Commandos give lap dances to the devs for the attention cause if so I'm willing to tea bag um all......
You could always drop your Rifleman skills and become a Pistoleer...
Yeah tell me about it... When we had a 20 page thread, all we wanted was our elite weapon fixed... And then they took it away from us like five minutes later.
I really don't see how pistoleers say they are broken; they kick my ass everytime I fight them. Lets see our profession:
Headshot 3: Same problem as Bodyshot 3, and probably the same as Leg Shot 3, but you don't see us complaining saying its broken, or demanding that it gives a state change, do you?
Sniper-Shot: Only does a coup de gras; Only really useful for stealing other people's, if anything should be that combined with massive mind damage, like a Head Shot 4. This should be our one-hit KO move. A sniper's motto is, "One shot, One Kill!!"
Suprise Shot: Doesn't do anything at all, it doesn't suprise the enemy, it just allows them to warp ontop of me because I'm using cover.
The Concealment Line: Since defensive modifiers don't work, this line is totally useless except for Conceal Shot, which tells all of the MOB's buddies where you are anyhow.
The 2.5x Damage Modifier: Really needs to go. If anything a rifle can be used as a melee weapon, or to block melee attacks, in real life that is. In US Army Basic Combat Training I learned how to beat the crud out of somebody with my M16A2. The damage combined with our speed penalty and warping MOBs means once we miss a shot against a melee character, might as well get ready to clone because with the new modifier for firing when shooting, we can't kite and we die.
The T-21: For a day it actually rocked, in fact I'm still using a Pre-Nerf that I've got from a month ago. The accuracy sucks and so does the rate of fire, but the ability to sometimes take out a Rebel Trooper in one hit (You know, like commandos and bounty hunters can do with their eyes closed?) makes the risk of me missing and getting my head pounded in (since Rebel Troopers are melee MOBs).
The Mind Pool: Oh but you say "Riflemen are so uber-L337 in PVP! Theytarget the mind pool that you can't heal!" First off, all you need to do to kill a rifleman is run up to him. We can't hit anything closer then 50 meters with most of our weapons. My T-21 hasa -90 at point blank range. Second off, by shooting your mind it takes away from my mind almost just as bad! My T21 has a HAM cost of 71 mind! Using specials my 1000 mind will be drained after eight or so shots! I really wouldn't mind the mind pool being healable, really, because I die from my Mind Pool being drained probably more then you!
Anyhow, yeah, most people are going to reply like "Did you even read our pistoleer thread?? We're the most broken class boo hoo!" But I'm not even claim Rifleman as the most broken class. The poor Droid Engineers nobody uses except for medical modules, the poor Squad Leaders that are completely broken, Bio-Engineers and Chefs nobody uses... I'm just saying those pistoleers really don't have it that bad compared to the other combat classes.
-Sral
You know what? I see this as a good sign.
I'm just glad they're finally looking at ANY profession - rifleman will hopefully get their turn too. but we're not the only ones holding the **edit**ty end of the stick in SOME area's of our profession.
I really don't like the idea of the weapon dmg shot. that's asking for grief and i don't see how it will have any immediate bearing on a pvp fight.
either it will do so much dmg that it can destroy a weapon right in your hands (that is so evil it's not even funny).
or it will just do minor dmg and not prevent the enemy from shooting back at you anyway - so whats the point? you annoy the enemy because now he has to go get it repaired when he gets a chance? You're still incapped/dead because even though you 'disarmed' (dmg'd his weapon) he was still able to fire on you.
unless i'm missing something -
but anyways, i think rifleman need very minor tweaks over all, as a starting point.
make conceal work against baf mobs. make heavy weapons do non-melee dmg. possibly tweak the 2.5x dmg modifier (1.5 or none, none would make most sense to me, but whatever). and fix the warp bug - hey, how could we be disappointed with that?accuracy and speed bonuses are a more sensitive issue and require extensive testing - i would rather see the more glaring immediate issues fixed in the next patch.
(oh, and they should check eyeshot - it needs some serious review. even if they do make it draw mind pool, have you seen the stats on a scatter pistol? it only uses 12 mind, you coud still spam it all day.
again, i'm glad the devs are paying attention to the users at all, even if it's not rifleman specifically.
Thats true I didnt think of it that way,maybe they are goign in Alphabetical order? wait no they still missed droid engeneers, ever since they made it so A) bots die B) Bots have horribly LOW HAM C)BOTS DIE, its made it hard for them, I do have a medical/crafting station bot, but hopefully they will work their way though and fix some issues, I do like our flushingshot 2, does some pretty wicked damage with a laser, lol thats if you hit at mid to upper range, nothigns worse than spending ALL that mind on a 200 point it lol made my guy cry actually.
Yes we do need the acuracy issue fixed and warping and conceal shot not making all the buddies come eat me, if they fixed those 3 I could live with out the t-21 (seeign as we still dont have them).
lol oh and BTW I LOVE STEALING pistol and BH and commando's kills with sniper shot lol I did that 5 times last night lol it makes up for us sucking at the PvP thing, I hang way back jsut tabbing lookign to see whos about to go down, then when they are about to I get ready and fire, lol that made my guy laugh last night!
ok, I'm maing a call to Aldeon. Aldeon the reason the pistoleers got this response was because of a thread their correspondent posted on the SWG DISCUSSION FORUM in this thread he urged other correspondents to do the same. I now urge you to make a thread like this to get a respons on these issues. You are doing a great job on the rifleman boards, but I'm begining to believe the devs only look at the discussion board. I reccomend you make a post like the pistoleer correspondent and put it on the discussion forum.
Unfortunately - Aldeon did post a VERY good, concise report on the shortcomings of the Rifleman profession in the Dev forum - which was locked. If you look around the rifleman board there is a link to it.
I guess the best we can do is post it again, and I would urge Aldeon to do so. I would also suggest not to "whine" or critisize the Dev's or Holo in the post for "ignoring us and just catering to the pistoleers and bounty hunters, etc". Remember how frickin useless the Commando's were before the profession was revised? I'm not saying they did a perfect job on that profession, but at least now it's playable. So you have to admit, things ARE getting done, just not necessarily the things WE'D like, or the things WE think should be changed.
Just list the shortcomings of the profession as un-biased and objectively as possible, post the possible solutions that people have come up with and hopefully we can get a discussion going with the Dev's/Holo. I think we should try and avoid calling nerf on any other skill profession as it just doesn't look good. Concerning Eyeshot, I think we should handle it along the lines of "Excuse me, but it seems strange that all attacks (at least ranged) use the same ham poolas the targetHAM pool. - why is Eyeshot an exception and should it be reviewed?
the problem as we see it: Eyeshot uses action to target mind - a healable pool to target an unhealable pool. no other profession has this ability. If it were changed to use mind, it is still incredibly powerful because of the cost vs dmg, the scatter pistol and every other pistol, cost very little mind to use. We're concerned about the balance of Bounty Hunters versus ALL other professions, not just rifleman, in this case. Would it be better if it targeted a random pool but still caused the effect (blindness) or is there some other alternative that can be reviewed? We understand that the Bounty Hunter profession is versatile and is a "rifleman/carbineer/pistoleer rolled into one" - Would it not make more sense to use a Rifle to deal the mind dmg in keeping witht he Rifleman/Carbineer/Pistoleer pre-requisites and tree's of the Bounty Hunter Profession? (just throwing one idea out there, there's a lot of other ones)
anyways, that's the sort of thing i would like to see, and hopefully the Dev's will engage us in a constructive forum as they have with the Pistoleers.
my $.02
Jeisyn Blackwell - Tempest- Rifleman - Master Scout - Band-aid proprietor
You missed the entire point of the intial post
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GalacticDarkMaster wrote
" I swear do the Pistols and BH and Commandos give lap dances to the devs for the attention cause if so I'm willing to tea bag um all......"
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NukeOperator,
This isnt about dropping the proffession to become a pistoleer, its the fact that rifleman are getting the shaft. We dont drop the rifleman class because we want to stick by with our desicion and seeit through to the end. Most of us here dont coward out when things arent going our way, those that do change to pistoleer or BH or whatever.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=508463
Keep this bumped.
Eppyon_MM - I agree, "Rifleman are getting the shaft."*sigh* I will be with you all to the end though.
GalacticDarkMaster wrote:
God is it jsut me or does everyone else get the devs attention? We are stuck with low fire rates, LOW accuracy, and a pretty crap-tacular main weapon (t-21 kind a sucks) but then again my server has never been able to make um cause of resources. I swear do the Pistols and BH and Commandos give lap dances to the devs for the attention cause if so I'm willing to tea bag um all......
"Attention"? To Bounty Hunters? O.o Hell, I think half the people on the BH forum would gladly show up on Holo's door wraped in cellophane and a bow just to get an actual response to our first list of corospondent issues. Being both Rifleman and Bounty Hunter, I can assure you that both classes have gotten relitively the same amount of "attention" from the Devs.
In my opinion though, EVERY class has a bunch of people who think that their class is the most broken, worthless, POS class in the game. When in reality, I think that Chefs are the only people who can come close to laying clame to "most broken, worthless, POS class in the game" title. Everyone else should just suck it up and wait for their turn for some Dev attention. They're only human, after all.
Athmou Voofo
Novice Bounty Hunter
0-1-1-0
Novice Rifleman
1-0-0-0