Rifleman Archive

Message Edited by Ackehece on 02-11-2005 08:45 AM

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WayneInAustin wrote:

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Barb-Wire wrote:

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WayneInAustin wrote:

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well as a once and future riflewoman (currently fooling around with BHing jedi) i am a up and coming jedi. i love the jedi thing its the next best thing to a T21. i have been jedi since november and i have spent a lot of time leveling as such. from my perspective it isnt as bad as it seems. there is a lot of turmoil in the FRS due to the LACK of jedi. really a lot of the problems in the high end arena is caused by thre being too few jedi to supply the FRS with victims.

the only thing i have concerns about are the anti-decay kits. on one hand i love em but i would gladly let it be deleted as well as i can see how unbalancing it is going to be. the one glimmer of hope i do have is that by reading tween the lines the devs saying you can recover the kit might mean that uber weapons and dots are going to poof in the revamp.

myself i have 4 of these kits two of which i will use for my sabers and the other two for clothing items. or perhaps give to a friend that doesnt have one yet.

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Barb...
I read that a player would only be able to use ONE of the Anti-Decay devices per account, and that if you tried to use a second one that you received a system message stating "You are already using this device" (or some such). If that is indeed the case, I hope you didn't spend much for them. The supposed exploit for this safeguard is to hand the kit and the item to another player and have them attach the kit and then hand it back. Please tell me you don't support this method of play?

Also, I am happy that you are enjoying your Jedi. But don't youagreethat the growing number of Jedi Knights is affecting the game play of the non-Jedi? For example, I went Krayt Hunting last night with a small group of friends. We had three master riflemen, a Swordsman, and a doctor (and maybe another player or two.. don't remember for sure). There were a good number of Krayts spawned when we arrived and not a lot of people. We found a Krayt Ancient that no one was attacking and set about to bring him down. As you probably know, he had 450K+ HAM and 95% resists to everything but LightSaber (5% resists I believe). After what seemed like many minutes we only had him down to about 65 or 70% health. Then a Jedi Knight showed up. Whereas the Health bar of the Krayt had dropped almost imperceptibly before, now we could see the health visibly tick off. Of course, we lost the loot rights.We moved on to another Krayt Ancient and within minutes, the Jedi came over and took charge of that one too.

The problem here is that no one did anything wrong, yet game play was ruined for the non-jedi. Camping of Nyax and Acklay by mulitple Jedi has already been reported. This problem will only get worse. I think what bothers me the most is that I don't see a solution to this problem. In my mind it is heading for "Become Jedi Knight or quit". This is NOT the game I started playing in July of 2003.

BY the way, this is not a shot at you. I have always admired your dedication to the Rifleman profession and have always felt your posts to be honest, to the point, and insightful. Your opinion is one I will always respect.

I agree, i have been playing off and on sice september 2003.

I remeber back in the days when CH was the PvP god...and the devs quickly smacked them back into place..

Yet now...Jedi are twice the gods CH used to be. And the devs keep giving them little gifts AKA: the fight club nod.

What about the other non-jedi profs? dont we get any kick backs? Why dont the devs make it possible for crafters to make a crafting macro so that they can quickly get through the horrid crafting grinding they must go through?

I honestly would not be surprised if SOE pulls the plug on galaxies, and renames it jedi online, or The path to the force online, or something along those lines...And for all of us paying customers who do not wish to be a jedi? They will just say, well sorry folks, but you mean nothing to us unless you are a jedi!

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WayneInAustin wrote:

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Barb-Wire wrote:

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WayneInAustin wrote:

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well as a once and future riflewoman (currently fooling around with BHing jedi) i am a up and coming jedi. i love the jedi thing its the next best thing to a T21. i have been jedi since november and i have spent a lot of time leveling as such. from my perspective it isnt as bad as it seems. there is a lot of turmoil in the FRS due to the LACK of jedi. really a lot of the problems in the high end arena is caused by thre being too few jedi to supply the FRS with victims.

the only thing i have concerns about are the anti-decay kits. on one hand i love em but i would gladly let it be deleted as well as i can see how unbalancing it is going to be. the one glimmer of hope i do have is that by reading tween the lines the devs saying you can recover the kit might mean that uber weapons and dots are going to poof in the revamp.

myself i have 4 of these kits two of which i will use for my sabers and the other two for clothing items. or perhaps give to a friend that doesnt have one yet.

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Barb...
I read that a player would only be able to use ONE of the Anti-Decay devices per account, and that if you tried to use a second one that you received a system message stating "You are already using this device" (or some such). If that is indeed the case, I hope you didn't spend much for them. The supposed exploit for this safeguard is to hand the kit and the item to another player and have them attach the kit and then hand it back. Please tell me you don't support this method of play?

Also, I am happy that you are enjoying your Jedi. But don't youagreethat the growing number of Jedi Knights is affecting the game play of the non-Jedi? For example, I went Krayt Hunting last night with a small group of friends. We had three master riflemen, a Swordsman, and a doctor (and maybe another player or two.. don't remember for sure). There were a good number of Krayts spawned when we arrived and not a lot of people. We found a Krayt Ancient that no one was attacking and set about to bring him down. As you probably know, he had 450K+ HAM and 95% resists to everything but LightSaber (5% resists I believe). After what seemed like many minutes we only had him down to about 65 or 70% health. Then a Jedi Knight showed up. Whereas the Health bar of the Krayt had dropped almost imperceptibly before, now we could see the health visibly tick off. Of course, we lost the loot rights.We moved on to another Krayt Ancient and within minutes, the Jedi came over and took charge of that one too.

The problem here is that no one did anything wrong, yet game play was ruined for the non-jedi. Camping of Nyax and Acklay by mulitple Jedi has already been reported. This problem will only get worse. I think what bothers me the most is that I don't see a solution to this problem. In my mind it is heading for "Become Jedi Knight or quit". This is NOT the game I started playing in July of 2003.

BY the way, this is not a shot at you. I have always admired your dedication to the Rifleman profession and have always felt your posts to be honest, to the point, and insightful. Your opinion is one I will always respect.

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(Note to Issik: You mentioned the Krayt T21's your guild had. I want you to know that I don't have any problem with protecting normally crafted items with these kits. It's the looted weapons with awesome DOTs or humongous damage that I am talking about)

Um... Maybe you should re-read that. They were exceptional (looted) t-21s. 3 of them so far, and more to come I think. One's 900 max, the other's almost 2k I think. Can't tell ya if they've been sliced or not.
We had the top two AS and WS on the server in the guild for a long time, so there's some insane gear floating arounf (700 max geno, 600 max geno: Player crafted, a few 500+ max dam batons, exceptional carbines, ~600 max scatters)

Although, I'm in the same boat as you. My best item is a 224 max dam VK, that was given to me by some guildies. I've got 77% armor, nothing crazy. I don't have uber attachments, or even aukaun rings! I'e got 400k in the bank total, on my one toon.

As a common folk, it's REALLY hard to pvp effectively, especially as a BH/TKM. Yah, I do OK, because I know my class and have been playing forever. I've got a pvp rating of 1600, which is good for a BH. But, I agree. It's really tough to be an effective pvp'r without insane gear. I don't really wanna be a stacker, but it's looking more and more like it's the only viable option on Bria. There was 20 rebel Knights online last night. 20! Ranged is becoming more and more obscure as the time of jedi is coming.

It makes me wanna pick up the rifle again, now that there's next to none of us and the odds are stacked against us.

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WayneInAustin wrote:

First, and more of interest to Riflemen, is the offering of the ANTI-DECAY devices to Veterans. Am I the only one that thinks these are a really bad idea? I feel this is a huge bonus for those players who have looted their Uber weapons but don't use them often for fear they will decay. This kit has given them free reign to PvP unabated with a huge advantage. Meanwhile, the "common man", of which I consider myself one, gets no real bonus in PvP with this. Sure I can protect my T21 or whatever, but I could always have bought another one anyway. I'm not saying its not a nice gift, I'm just saying it provides a huge advantage to certain players.

Weapons will be changing and brought into balance in the CU/R/B. So this problem should correct itself.

Second is the sheer explosion of Jedi. There are already camping problems with Jedi. As all the new Padawans level up, this problem will only get worse. Any MOB that drops good loot will soon be camped by Jedi and the "common man" can go kill gnorts. I wish I had a solution to this problem. I see no solution.

This was unavoidable once perma-death was removed. There is no real way to limit the number of Jedi.

Third is the end-game for Jedi. It is in terrible disarray right now.

I did not originally plan to become a Jedi, but after having done almost everything I wanted to do in the game, it was the one path untravelled. So I finally took the steps. For me it is not the power that draws me, but the sense of new content.

For those of you who don't follow Jedi, the end game is in a real mess right now. Typically, you grind up to Jedi Knight (which is OK --there doesnt seem to be any problem in that grind). It is what happens after that point that things get really bad. After Jedi Knight there is a "FORCE RANKING SYSTEM" or FRS in which the best of the best can advance (i.e., get more power, etc.) There are supposedly a small number of slots on each server for Jedi in the FRS. Apparently, there is massive abuse at this level of the game.

And the abuse at the upper levels has unfortunately been supported by the Devs. Last week the Developers came out openly on the Jedi Forum and said that "Fight Clubs" were OK and were not considered exploiting. A Fight Club is basically a group of Jedi's and BH, etc., who get together and engage in ROUTINE, CONTROLLED SLAUGHTER of each other (with rez's) so the Jedi's can quickly gain rank in the FRS and be the best Jedi's on the server. While the devs admit that this is not the way the would like to see the game played, they openly admitted they will not consider it an exploit.In my mind, the upper level Jedi end-game is now run by "the mob".

I think the point of all this is that SOE, IN MY OPINION, is making terrible decisions for the common man, pandering to the Leet Jedis, and even supporting those who attain their power in less than ethical ways. I think I am depressed because I see agame that has unlimited potential systematically destroy itself.

Please convince me I am wrong.

Agree. Now to find a way to break up these groups.

I think a large part of is it that we have certain expectations of Jedi. That they should have a certain code to live by because of what we know of them from canon and EU sources. SWG does not incorporate that code. It's up to the individual player to do so. Which makes Jedi nothing more than a high powered profession which will attract certain kinds of players. Which in many ways makes the problem worse.

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WayneInAustin wrote:

I think my despair spawns from recent events that have occurred in both the forums and the game. More generally, I think my despair is for the "common man" who wants to compete in SWG. I think the time for the "common man" to compete and win in PvP is coming to an end. I believe SWG may be turning into Jedi Wars, and its even nastier thanthat.

I too sense the same feelings that you have for the game and worry as well about where things are heading from here. From all that we've seen and been given access to, for all that has been leaked out about the CU/R/B and what will be set and what is currently popular rumor there is much to ponder as the time for live comes near.

In all honesty it seems that the new combat system will be great for those who are looking for balance outside of one profession. As it stands now each armor will have a different resist type and each weapon will perform better in certain circumstance than others to which will be a welcome sight. Add in the new changes for factions, PvP vs. PvE and incentives for participating in the GCW there is much to hope for on the horizon. Aside from all of this the one main concern and one shared by many is what will be the fate of the new system once it goes live.

Right now we all know what the imbalances of game play is, from stacked defenses to insane DoT weapons and broken professions. No one person hasn't been affected by the current system and hopefully all will benefit once the revamp hits live. The problem comes from deep within, one which has been in place since last year and basically changed the game forever. This one major concern is how will non-Jedi / non-FS players be able to compete with those who choose these paths.

Here are the threethings that I've discoveredrecently thatreally got to me (NOT in any order):

First, and more of interest to Riflemen, is the offering of the ANTI-DECAY devices to Veterans. Am I the only one that thinks these are a really bad idea? I feel this is a huge bonus for those players who have looted their Uber weapons but don't use them often for fear they will decay. This kit has given them free reign to PvP unabated with a huge advantage. Meanwhile, the "common man", of which I consider myself one, gets no real bonus in PvP with this. Sure I can protect my T21 or whatever, but I could always have bought another one anyway. I'm not saying its not a nice gift, I'm just saying it provides a huge advantage to certain players.

(Note to Issik: You mentioned the Krayt T21's your guild had. I want you to know that I don't have any problem with protecting normally crafted items with these kits. It's the looted weapons with awesome DOTs or humongous damage that I am talking about)

I too worry about this as it means great harm to a currently grossly imbalanced system like we have in place right now. Last night I sliced a legendary T21 (base 417 - 1934 speed 3.9if I recall) for a damage of 23% pushing the rifle to 2487 (if I recall) maximum damage. With a power up this rifle hits well over 3200 for maximum damage, something no single weapon in a MMO should ever be capable of doing. The player added on the anti-decay kit and will now use this as his only weapon for nothing will beat the sheer damage this weapon is capable of (2400 in PvP with Strafe Shot2). I know of about 7 other legendary and extraodinary T-21s on my server (one which has an Action fire of 600 and over 10k charges) which more than likely has one of these anti-decay kits on it. Weapons like these should never be allowed to hold such power nor be allowed to be free from decay.

What made me feel even worse is if these weapons aren't balanced after the CU/R/B. To think that all of our stats will be modified after the revamp along with doctor buffs, entertainer buffs, food, armor and our crafted weapons, there is no way a person without one of these unique items will be able to compete. Some say after "pwning the nub" for so long in one or two shot kills that it would get boring. It gets boring even faster to be on the receiving end of that weapon for every engagement you're in. There are more people on our respective servers who are more concerned about winning and being all powerful than there are those who are concerned about fairness and balance for all. It's these people who will potentially break down the CU/R/B if these things aren't adjust and thought through before hand.

Second is the sheer explosion of Jedi. There are already camping problems with Jedi. As all the new Padawans level up, this problem will only get worse. Any MOB that drops good loot will soon be camped by Jedi and the "common man" can go kill gnorts. I wish I had a solution to this problem. I see no solution.

Looking from the outside it's easy to ask the question "Why not just follow suit and become one of the many?"; however, there's something very unique about MMOs and that is the ability to mold your character to whatever form you like. Under this molding process it is usually the goal of the developers to insure that one specific class isn't at a great under balance or a great over balance during game play to keep it fair and fun for all who participate. In our current time we have seen that only a handful of professions have the ability to seem fair and fun where as many others are left in the dark. The fear many of us have is Post CU/R/B will usher in the time of when only one class type will truly reign supreme and that is Jedi.

From experience it's easier to slay a crowd of agros with a saber than it is any other weapon in game. Lightsabers are the only thing which have no challenge in SW:G for everything is weak to it. This just brings to light the reason why many more people will travel down this road, not to be the Jedi but to be powerful and gain the easy path. The only thing I've seen attempt to gate the problem is that drop rates are worse with a Jedi than they are if you're using a non-FS player outside any agro listed below 150 in difficulty.

Third is the end-game for Jedi. It is in terrible disarray right now. I did not originally plan to become a Jedi, but after having done almost everything I wanted to do in the game, it was the one path untravelled. So I finally took the steps. For me it is not the power that draws me, but the sense of new content.

That's part of the problem, one of the only "end game" parts of SW:G is to become a Jedi with a completed template. Once you have your template done there is no reason to fear nor hide. If they die they still take an experience loss but it's of no worry as there is no need. Add to this Jedi was marketed as a final solution for the game; however, it was poorly implemented. Jedi should have been an option for those who've been in game for 2 years + and done various things through out their time. Grinding for Jedi should have been even longer than what it currently is for there is no real penalty for death, but only gains as you progress on.

Something else you hit on is that Jedi is the only content, and this is so true. Those of us who've been around since January last year and before recall being told how the CR (combat revamp) was going to be in place soon and would bring about balance. We'd get more dungeons related to the GCW along with a better overall game. The downside is marketing for SOE/LA figured that players wanted Jedi more than anything and this would be the cash cow to keep accounts, though proved to be a very fatal choice. Months of development time were added into the game just for this one profession; one which was the newest to the game was getting the most attention. For months non-Jedi watched in terror as Jedi started to spring up all across our servers and started to do battle. Before publish 9 it wasn't too hard to drop a 4/4/4/4 guardian as they were still weak yet able to wear composite armor. Post 9 the non-FS/Jedi were sentenced to death or slumber until recent times as Jedi were now farming overts for FRS and killing anything and everything that stood in their path.

Post 9 we watched as Jedi could now block 85% of all ranged attacks at master lightsaber. This spelled the end for ranged combat as we knew it only leaving a few die hard fans on the ground. Robes were in place and thus added to the look and feel of the new times, one not know as Star Wars Galaxies but as Jedi Wars. We can't travel more than 10 feet outside of some star ports without hearing some force action or seeing a saber being whirled across our screen. This is the content to which the devs wanted us to have and now it seems to be the common place for those who wish to find some meaning to the game.

For those of you who don't follow Jedi, the end game is in a real mess right now. Typically, you grind up to Jedi Knight (which is OK --there doesnt seem to be any problem in that grind). It is what happens after that point that things get really bad. After Jedi Knight there is a "FORCE RANKING SYSTEM" or FRS in which the best of the best can advance (i.e., get more power, etc.) There are supposedly a small number of slots on each server for Jedi in the FRS. Apparently, there is massive abuse at this level of the game.

And the abuse at the upper levels has unfortunately been supported by the Devs. Last week the Developers came out openly on the Jedi Forum and said that "Fight Clubs" were OK and were not considered exploiting. A Fight Club is basically a group of Jedi's and BH, etc., who get together and engage in ROUTINE, CONTROLLED SLAUGHTER of each other (with rez's) so the Jedi's can quickly gain rank in the FRS and be the best Jedi's on the server. While the devs admit that this is not the way the would like to see the game played, they openly admitted they will not consider it an exploit.In my mind, the upper level Jedi end-game is now run by "the mob".

This is the worst part, once again another horribly designed idea and implemented when it shouldn't have ever been put in place. On my server we had one knight who openly admitted how to perform this and that he does it to keep his rank (until he switched sides). It's sad to see what levels some people will go just to obtain a title or feel some importance. Worse yet is that SOE/LA allows these actions to happen and seem to condone them as well such as Tiggs posts over Jedi Fight Clubs. Over looking staged fights only for the benefit of those to rise in rank even without bypassing set timers is still wrong.

I think the point of all this is that SOE, IN MY OPINION, is making terrible decisions for the common man, pandering to the Leet Jedis, and even supporting those who attain their power in less than ethical ways. I think I am depressed because I see agame that has unlimited potential systematically destroy itself.

Please convince me I am wrong.

I wish I could add some light and hope to break away your fears though I too share the same dim prospects of what could happen if action isn't taken immediately over these issues. Leaving one alpha class and legendary weapons untouched come the revamp will mean that either you have them or you don't and if you don't than you'll never be competitive on any field of play in SW:G.

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