Rifleman Archive
Thread: DLT20a vs Laser Rifle
Fiain wrote:
Okay I'm not very far in my rifleman yet, but a friend and I where discussing the differances between the DLT20a and the Laser Rifle. On my server Tarquinas there seems to be a lot of really well made DLT20a but my friend keeps telling me to go Laser Rifle. Unfortunatley at this time there's no T21 option for me. Here are the stats on the two I have.
DLT20a DMG 126-206 speed 4.9
Laser DMG 32-358 speed 6.0
The damage variance on the Laser rifle seems really high, but it does hit it's sweet spot at 60 meters instead of the DLT20a's 45 meters. The DLT20a's mind cost is a good bit lower and it's a faster rifle than the laser. But The Laser Rifle has medium armor piercing. My frined says that I'll start noticeing a big differance on higher level creatures. Assumeing this is the armor pierceing kicking in. I wanted to know what some of you with some real world experiance with these can tell me. What's your opnion? What's the pros and cons of this debate. Personally I've been leaning on my trusty old DLT20a for the consistancy of damage.
DLT20a DMG 126-206 speed 4.9
Effectiveness Rating: {[(126+206)/2] * 1.5}/4.9 = 50.8
Laser Rifle DMG 32-358 speed 6.0
Effectiveness Rating: {[(32+358)/2] * 1.5 * (1.25)^2}/6.0 = 76.1
So from a pure damage perspective, your Laser Rifle will outperform your DLT20a. However, the DLT20a may be superior from a HAM efficiency perspective when firing specials.
A tight variance is nice, but in this case it seems that the variance is trumped by both the high max damage of the Laser Rifle and the AP2.
Short answer: I use both. 
Those are about the same stats as the best I've seen after checking most MWS shops I know of on Tarq. Getting them sliced would be a good idea.
On AR Light or higher mobs you do NOT want to use the DLT20a, it will do very poor damage.
I got most of my experience from the double bleed then kite using HS2 method. When doing this I'd do the double bleed with my laser but do the HS2s with my DLT20a.
I could kill a LOT faster when using my laser, but spent more time resting than the total rest + kill time with a DLT20a. This was on GBN.
I think I can give you an "expert's" opinion, because I lived both lives. I went thru periods where I didnt want to mess with the muon gold downers and rode the back of my DLT20A (my best one was 263 without a power-up). Then I went thru periods where I gulped muon gold and rode my Laser rifle til it died. Here are some of my thoughts:
-- DLT20A: Man, what a steady, low-HAM rifle. When I was out to enjoy the hunt, and not just blow things to pieces this was THE rifle. I could fire it a long time before having to glance up and check my mind bar. This rifle was amazingly effective on a lot of mobs! I loved it for mind bleeds over my laser because it was SO consistent. My mind bleeds on most MOBs were consistently over 700, and often near 1000. I used it a lot up until the last few boxes of rifleman. I recommend this rifle when you have limited time and need a consistent shot (i.e., Mind bleeds and headshots before the MOB charges.)
-- The Laser rifle was good when I just wanted to damage something. You know how you reach that point when taking down a mob and they're walking in slow motion? Pull out your Laser and just auto-attack. You dont need specials so the HAM costs dont matter. Or when you're trying to knock out that empty lair. Laser is what you want.
I guess the bottom line is you needBOTH rifles. You will find the DLT20A very useful even if T21s DO show up on your server.
I admit that I have not used a DLT20a since I got a Laser, and did not consider going back to it until I saw some Master Riflemen posts talking about using one more than their Lasers. I just have not gotten around to asking my Weaponsmith, Posli, to make me one for comaparision purposes. So I will notspeak to comparing the DLT20a to a Laser, leaving it those who use them both regularly. I will only say that the arguments, especially with regard to the HAM costs, is compelling.
But you should also consider looking into an E11 for many of the same reasons you are considering a DLT20a. My E11 is damaged sliced and does 126 - 250 dmg at 4.7 speed (with no powerups), if I recall correctly. While the E11, too, as a lower maximum damage than the Laser you mention, it has a slightly higher max than the DLT20a, and is a hair faster, but more importantly the E11 is AP2like the Laserbut has significantly lower HAM costs. That means thatmy E11 is gentler on the mind like, though probably not as much as, the DLT20a, but will hit for almost identicalaverage damage as the Laser you indicate. (188 formy E11 vs. 190 for the Laser.) Andbeing thattheE11 is AP2, even if the DLT20a and E11 hit for the same base damage, the E11 will do 56% more damage against an unamored target, and significantly more as the target's armor level increases.
So while the DLT20a is undoubtedly a good weapon to have and likely uses less HAM than the E11, I think the overall balance of HAM use vs. damage output likely favors the E11. Those aremy thoughts, anyway.
If my math is correct, I can shoot my E11 using Headshot 3 and hit for only about 1% less average damagethan the avergedamageof my speed sliced 40 - 402 Laser shooting Headshot 2 and still be using only 67% of the HAM cost of the Laser, this despite the significantly higher Mind cost modifier of Headshot 3.
So, I concur that going with a lower max damage weapon to gain the benefits of the lower HAM usage of that weapon is worth giving up the chance for spectacular hits from the Laser, relegating the Laser to similar duty to the T21, special assignments. But consider picking up good E11 as well, and see if you like it better for the same reasons.
BTW, using Volsted's Effectiveness Rating, the E11 I mentioned above would be:
( ( (126+250) /2) *1.5*(1.25^2))/4.7 = 93.75.
One other thought, this discussion is quite interesting in one regard. Outside of my suggestion to look at the E11 (cert'd at Rifle IV), the question here is whether to use the DLT20a or Laser rifle as the workhorse, everyday general use weapon of choicefor Riflemen. And we riflemen and riflewomen do not even blink an eye, because the arguments for or against are compelling and both sides havegood and sage points.
However, I am just trying to picture Master and other Pistoleersseriously debating without blinking an eye over whether to use the D18 pistol (cert'd at Novice Marksman like the DLT20a) or the Scout Blaster (cert'd at Pistol II compared to the Laser Rifle cert'd at Rifle II) for their weapon of choice.
That is not meant as disrespect for the Pistoleers or any other Elite profession. I just find it interesting observation.
I don't really think you can compare it because pistols use action which can be healed with a stimpack B and novice medic, where as rifles use mind which can't.
DLT20a DMG 126-206 speed 4.9
Laser DMG 32-358 speed 6.0
The damage variance on the Laser rifle seems really high, but it does hit it's sweet spot at 60 meters instead of the DLT20a's 45 meters. The DLT20a's mind cost is a good bit lower and it's a faster rifle than the laser. But The Laser Rifle has medium armor piercing. My frined says that I'll start noticeing a big differance on higher level creatures. Assumeing this is the armor pierceing kicking in. I wanted to know what some of you with some real world experiance with these can tell me. What's your opnion? What's the pros and cons of this debate. Personally I've been leaning on my trusty old DLT20a for the consistancy of damage.
No DLT20a for me.