Rifleman Archive
Thread: Conceal Shot Bleeds?
Page 1 of 1
XanKriegor
Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:16 am
#1
Just a quick question.
When trying to conceal shoot a high HAM mob; is there some way to prevent it from bleeding? Always seems to happen to me, and if there is a way to work around it, I would like to know 
morticide
Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:56 am
#2
does it randomly (not just conceal shot). i actually think it may have been added to prevent rifleman from doing conceal shot with (barely) no repurcussions. anyway, just watch for it, if you see a bleed popup, peace and move back to around 75m or more and wait - seems to be the only way around it
XanKriegor
Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:58 am
#3
Well I can kite them ifthey start bleeding, but I heard some people say that there is a work around, a trick or whatever. Just more comfortable to conceal shoot it all the way instead of having to run around 
So if anyone knows, please do share.
Ackehece
Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:30 am
#4
XanKriegor wrote:
Well I can kite them ifthey start bleeding, but I heard some people say that there is a work around, a trick or whatever. Just more comfortable to conceal shoot it all the way instead of having to run around
So if anyone knows, please do share.
We have many theories about this - but it appears to bea random unavoidable event - the current best fit theory is that it is based on the wounding chance of the weapon. If you have a lower wound chance weapon it "may" have a lower chance of causing the bleed. Other then that - just keep an eye on your conceal shot so if you see a bleed come up you can peace and move out to 75+ m(no AFK conceal shooting!). Don't move more then 128m away as this can at times cause it to despawn (not a good thing!).
Ackehece
Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:13 pm
#6
XanKriegor wrote:
Ackehece wrote:
XanKriegor wrote:
Well I can kite them ifthey start bleeding, but I heard some people say that there is a work around, a trick or whatever. Just more comfortable to conceal shoot it all the way instead of having to run around
So if anyone knows, please do share.
We have many theories about this - but it appears to bea random unavoidable event - the current best fit theory is that it is based on the wounding chance of the weapon. If you have a lower wound chance weapon it "may" have a lower chance of causing the bleed. Other then that - just keep an eye on your conceal shot so if you see a bleed come up you can peace and move out to 75+ m(no AFK conceal shooting!). Don't move more then 128m away as this can at times cause it to despawn (not a good thing!).
Damn, either this is a hard fact or someone is keeping a deep and dark rifleman secret to themselves!
it may be fact - but the testing involved in verifying the result would be prohibitive.
*current test method*
- use multiple different weapons on similar creatures that can take long term conceal shots
0-10% low wound chance, 20-30% medium wound chance and 40-50% high wound chance
2. pick large target
krayt, NS elder, Tuskan Observer etc... but they all must be the same (and same stats for the test)
use 10 to 20 for each test - logging all results and when the bleed hits
3. compare logs - calculate how many shots per target before bleed
4. Graph the comparisons
5. if random event - then all results should be the same (equal chance of it happening - flat graph)
6. if it is stochastic (on wound chance) then you should see a graph that rises with the greater the wound chance
WayneInAustin
Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:18 pm
#7
Ackhece...
That MIGHT be a good test... but if the accuracy of the weapons also have an effect, that might influence the results. Bottom line is it's going to take a LOT of data to prove anything one way or t'other.
Molveno
Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:27 pm
#8
My guess about the random bleed is that the more powerful you hit, the more possibly you put a bleed..
I did a little test a couple hours ago and here are the results.
I went to Lok and looked for a GDK spawn for awhile and found one after a little bit of riding around the volcano.
I personally don't use powerups unless it's really necessary. But this time I put a 32 max / 16 min damage powerup on my 218-510 damage T21. Wound chance of this gun is 37.2.. With powerup it's 252-674, and ofcourse the same wound chance..
For the first 3 GDKs I used this gun w/ powerup and I got aggro pretty early. Afterhitting them for like 20k of health damage..
For the 4th one I decided to use really low damage (compared to T21) jawa ion rifle. Here are the stats for the jawa: 146-266, wound change 8.9%. Wound chance is pretty low too again compared to T21. Then I managed to kill the 4th GDK with the jawa without any bleeds at all. It took some time to kill him, but I got no bleed.
Then I kept using the same jawaon the 5th one too.. It was like 96k ham.. After getting him about 40k I got my 3rd miss, because jawa rifle has really low accuracy at the max range, GDK aggroed and I had to kill him as TKM. But I had managed to make another 50k of health damage before it aggroes, plus some more damage to other pools, without any bleeds again.
Then I tried to determine if it's wound chance or the low damage output that prevent me to get any bleeds and switched back to the same T21, but w/o powerup this time.. So the same wound chance as the powerup case, but lower damage output.
6th GDK went down w/o any bleeds again.
Kept using the same T21 w/o powerup at the 7th one and I got bleed just before he dies.
So I think the bleed chance has something to do with how hard you hit the mob. Same thing applies to TK too. You get random bleeds occasionally with UnarmedHit3, because it's damage output is really high compared to the other hits, like UH2 or UH1.
I'm still not sure about the wound chance tho, so i'll keep testing this with GDKs with lower damage T21s. I have some speed sliced ones with exact same wound chance and other stats except the damage. They have about 400 max damage, and this is pretty low compared to damage sliced w/ power up ones (252-674)..
Ackehece
Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:28 pm
#9
WayneInAustin wrote:
Ackhece...
That MIGHT be a good test... but if the accuracy of the weapons also have an effect, that might influence the results. Bottom line is it's going to take a LOT of data to prove anything one way or t'other.
very true and that is why I said it had to be a stochastic test (only one variable) if it is more ... it will be insanely difficult to prove anywhich way - and that is why this is just an unproven hypothesis and not a law ^_^
if anyone is brave and does want to try this out - I hope they do . But as it would take weeks of data collection I really don't think it is worth it and we should just play like the bleed will land and we will have to do peace once and a while ^_^
XanKriegor
Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:33 am
#10
Ackehece wrote:
XanKriegor wrote:
Well I can kite them ifthey start bleeding, but I heard some people say that there is a work around, a trick or whatever. Just more comfortable to conceal shoot it all the way instead of having to run around
So if anyone knows, please do share.
We have many theories about this - but it appears to bea random unavoidable event - the current best fit theory is that it is based on the wounding chance of the weapon. If you have a lower wound chance weapon it "may" have a lower chance of causing the bleed. Other then that - just keep an eye on your conceal shot so if you see a bleed come up you can peace and move out to 75+ m(no AFK conceal shooting!). Don't move more then 128m away as this can at times cause it to despawn (not a good thing!).
Damn, either this is a hard fact or someone is keeping a deep and dark rifleman secret to themselves! 
XanKriegor
Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:31 am
#11
DrakeSabbatch wrote:
Those hard hits are what in fact cause the bleeds. I've tested out a variation of T21's over the past monthto try and find the max dmg that you can have w/o causing a bleed. A 404 max wouldnt causea bleed with elders, but would get 1 in on djm's. Meanwhile my 398 max has yet to cause a concealshot bleed on any mob, so somewhere between 398 and 404 is the max dmg ona T21 to have 0% chance of bleeds. I've concealed 20+ djm's and an endless amount of NS elders with my testing...take it or leave it for what its worth.
Message Edited by DrakeSabbatch on 10-06-2004 12:33 AM
So with lower weapon damage you can avoid the bleed? I think I might stop by a different weaponsmith sometime today then. Thanks man! 
By the way, and I don't know if this is common knowledge (probably is), butsince it couldprove beneficial to someone,here goes.If conceal shot fails, and the target starts bleeding, you can still kill them without having to wait for the bleed to disappear. Just walk away abit, until the target is some 100 m away from you maybe.When it aggroes due to the bleed, start running, but let it catch up with you and start shooting it withyour prefered skill, which for me in this case would be advancedstrafe since concealalready has health down a bit. If you keep running, very quickly you should notice that the target has stopped running towards you, and has instead entered a sort of docile state in which it only walks.
From here its all about kiting. Dont let it get within range, keep itat least 40 m away since itstarts using force powers if it getstoo close, and beware of othermobs you might run. So far this has worked for me every timeconceal shot landed a bleed on an elder.
DrakeSabbatch
Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:20 pm
#12
Those hard hits are what in fact cause the bleeds. I've tested out a variation of T21's over the past monthto try and find the max dmg that you can have w/o causing a bleed. A 404 max wouldnt causea bleed with elders, but would get 1 in on djm's. Meanwhile my 398 max has yet to cause a concealshot bleed on any mob, so somewhere between 398 and 404 is the max dmg ona T21 to have 0% chance of bleeds. I've concealed 20+ djm's and an endless amount of NS elders with my testing...take it or leave it for what its worth.
Message Edited by DrakeSabbatch on 10-06-2004 12:33 AM
Molveno
Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:27 pm
#13
3 more GDKs with a 403 max damage T21, no bleeds at all.
no scales either 
Page 1 of 1