Rifleman Archive
Thread: Combat Upgrade Sanbox and the Testers
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Atradie
Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:12 pm
#1
Just a suggestion
We might want to update the list. since some people quit the game or move on to other professions.
Waste93
Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:13 pm
#2
Atradie wrote:
Just a suggestion
We might want to update the list. since some people quit the game or move on to other professions.
I got confirmation from all the testers a couple days ago. So we are good to go. 
One positive as I see it. Everone that agreed to test two months ago also confirmed a couple days ago. So they've all stuck around so far. 
Message Edited by Waste93 on 10-29-2004 07:04 PM
lammergeier
Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:46 pm
#3
psst. it's SanDbox.
other than that... sleep. the long-gunners will need you to burn the midnight oil soon enough.
other than that... sleep. the long-gunners will need you to burn the midnight oil soon enough.
Waste93
Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:46 am
#4
As most of you are aware the Combat Upgrade is moving forward now that JtL is out. In case you don't check the other boards much there was an announcement by TH here What's going on with Combat?.
About two months ago I asked for volunteers to help with this testing. I want to thank everyone for the great response I received. There were over 80 applicants. Unfortunately I was only able to chose five. 
It was a very difficult decision. However for those that were not picked for the Alpha testing I strongly encourage you to apply for the Beta testing. Once the Alpha phase is over there will be an expanded selection for Beta. I would like to see as many of you in Beta as possible. Please remember though that all those that are in Alpha and those chosen for Beta will be subject to a Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA).
It was a very difficult decision. However for those that were not picked for the Alpha testing I strongly encourage you to apply for the Beta testing. Once the Alpha phase is over there will be an expanded selection for Beta. I would like to see as many of you in Beta as possible. Please remember though that all those that are in Alpha and those chosen for Beta will be subject to a Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA). As for the testers. I've decided not to release their names. The main reason is that I don't want them being constantly sent PM's or ingame tells asking for information, complaints, etc. It's my responsibility to communicate with all of you here. Not theirs. However I have left it up to the testers if they wish to identify themselves. I know this decission may not be popular with some. What I'm asking is that you trust my judgement in my selection of the testers.
I have no doubts you will be seeing all kinds of rumor posts soon in regards to the Combat Upgrade. Please remember that these will be just that, rumors. Some may be accurate while others will be wildly inaccurate. This is Alpha testing. There will be a number of things that happen there that may not work and will change. So even an accurate rumor may no longer be accurate a couple days later.
I know we've been waiting for this for a very long time. Since Dec '03. So many of us are more than a bit anxious about this. Myself included. However we are going to have to have some patience. We will be testing this thing to the best of our abilities and try as many combinations as possible. This is going to take some time. Especially as we will have to retest any fixes to see how they effect other aspects. My personal opinion is that I would rather this take a bit longer but get it right then rush it out there and have to go back and fix it in live. This is going to be a whole new system. You could almost say a new game, at least from the combat side.
I've always been big on communication between the Devs and the players. I will share information with you as soon as I am able.
Thanx.
meninus
Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:15 am
#5
Am I the only onethatfeels a sense of forebodeing here. I predict a nerf coming our way.
Do we know whether or not the devs will fix even the things they have already given us - which would perhaps be a good start since unless they do that I will have little confidence in any future promises.
How can I combat balance my catand my dog or my sister and my mother-in-law? All tips welcome.
The only combat upgrade needed is - fix those specials.
Lots of problems already being reported with JTL - hope they will fix the game first before the appendix.
Message Edited by meninus on 10-30-2004 02:18 AM
KardenTyrell
Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:09 am
#6
You have to realise that Everything is going to change...and some professions might think of something as a nerf, but in the new system it might be a strength. What lies ahead is only known to those who can access the documents. We'll have to wait and see and trust those who are coming along with waste
Cpl_Fisher
Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:48 pm
#7
/pray rifleman speed isn't nerfed. (I use rifleman as a Machine gunner more than a sniper, All I need is AOE suppression fire)
Just a useful tip with just a couple of rifleman and carbinneers/bh carbines using accurate weapons, You can deny passage to just about anybody that is attackable
Skullie-AR
Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:28 am
#8
I play different combat professions on different servers and with different alts. Personally I think one thing that is WRONG with the current combat system is the fact that there is little distinction between the ranged professions. Part of this can be attributed to the fact that Pistoleer and Carbineer are so amazingly broken compared to rifleman. I play all three currently, and have mastered all three multiple times, but rifleman is by far the most functional. Is it also broken? Sure. Rifleman needs fixes, just not on the scale of the others.
But that is only part of it. The other issue is one of distinction. What distinguishes Pistoleer from Carbineer from Rifleman? Carbineer gets some great state attacks (the ones that actually work....that is), and Pistoleer gets some great defensive mods and a bit of speed, but thats about it. That doesnt seem like enough to really make each one of them worth mastering. THAT.....is why I actually hope they change(not nerf) rifleman and the others. I wont dictate all the changes to Pistoleer and Carbineer I like, but the rifleman ones are simple:
-Rifleman should not be able to fire within a few points of the speed cap. It's a rifle, not a pistol.
-Rifles should not be able to hit the broadside of a barn even 5m away if they are standing and running. In fact they probably shouldnt be able to hit ANYTHING while standing and running.
-Rifleman should have a point blank melee attack for KD or posture change to use as protection.
-Rifleman SHOULD be able to fire from standing with great accuracy, but at a severely decreased speed.
-Rifleman should ALWAYS do the most damage per hit.
Those are my thoughts for rifleman. If they do those, fix the other ranged profs, and nerf melee back to the stone age where it belongs, I will be a happy man. Playingn rifleman will be much more exciting and tense, and there will be a good deal more interest in the other ranged professions. It will also chip away at the soloer, and force players to learn tactics like taunt and others in order to survive, in addition to fostering group hunts.
Just my 2 cents. I am considering the best things for the game and my personal quality of play.
But that is only part of it. The other issue is one of distinction. What distinguishes Pistoleer from Carbineer from Rifleman? Carbineer gets some great state attacks (the ones that actually work....that is), and Pistoleer gets some great defensive mods and a bit of speed, but thats about it. That doesnt seem like enough to really make each one of them worth mastering. THAT.....is why I actually hope they change(not nerf) rifleman and the others. I wont dictate all the changes to Pistoleer and Carbineer I like, but the rifleman ones are simple:
-Rifleman should not be able to fire within a few points of the speed cap. It's a rifle, not a pistol.
-Rifles should not be able to hit the broadside of a barn even 5m away if they are standing and running. In fact they probably shouldnt be able to hit ANYTHING while standing and running.
-Rifleman should have a point blank melee attack for KD or posture change to use as protection.
-Rifleman SHOULD be able to fire from standing with great accuracy, but at a severely decreased speed.
-Rifleman should ALWAYS do the most damage per hit.
Those are my thoughts for rifleman. If they do those, fix the other ranged profs, and nerf melee back to the stone age where it belongs, I will be a happy man. Playingn rifleman will be much more exciting and tense, and there will be a good deal more interest in the other ranged professions. It will also chip away at the soloer, and force players to learn tactics like taunt and others in order to survive, in addition to fostering group hunts.
Just my 2 cents. I am considering the best things for the game and my personal quality of play.
Message Edited by Skullie-AR on 10-31-2004 05:33 AM
Message Edited by Skullie-AR on 10-31-2004 07:44 AM
Message Edited by Skullie-AR on 10-31-2004 07:46 AM
Regulation
Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:43 am
#9
Waste count me as in on the testing...just waiting on the acceptance e-mail...i'll be testing rifleman and cm
Waste93
Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:26 pm
#10
Skullie-AR wrote:
-Rifleman should not be able to fire within a few points of the speed cap. It's a rifle, not a pistol.
Common myth. Rifles fire as fast as pistols and carbines. It's been established thru common sense and thru canon sources.
-Rifles should not be able to hit the broadside of a barn even 5m away if they are standing and running. In fact they probably shouldnt be able to hit ANYTHING while standing and running.
Firing on the run is difficult with any weapon. Not just a rifle. Try it some time. Though a pistol is more manuevarble, the carbine and rifle usually make up for that with higher firing rates than pistols since they are more commonly automatic.
-Rifleman should have a point blank melee attack for KD or posture change to use as protection.
Riflemen don't need a KD attack. Our role isn't status effects. It is firepower. Though we are looking at getting a 'buttstroke' or 'bayonetlunge' type of melee range attack.
-Rifleman SHOULD be able to fire from standing with great accuracy, but at a severely decreased speed.
See above. Speed in the game represents aim time. Not a mechanical limit of the weapon. Since a pistol, rifle, and carbine all use about the same sighting system they would have about the same aim time. If you want to be correct then aim time should be dependent on range to target. Not on the weapon in hand.
-Rifleman should ALWAYS do the most damage per hit.
Commandos use heavy weapons. They should be the top damage dealers. With Riflemen second.
DarthMarksman
Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:02 pm
#11
Good points Waste.
I definitely want to be a part of this. I'mhoping I get that email soon.
Ciirybeccaskyr
Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:58 pm
#12
Waste always gives very well thought out answers in a diplomatic way.
Just go look at some of his wook armor arguments from way back as well
ObiQuixote
Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:31 am
#13
Actually firing on the run, while damn hard, is a little easier with rifles.
You can't run as fast while doing this, but keeping the rifle shouldered while moving allows you to keep a relatively stable eye looking down to the barrel and sights which give better accuracy at range.
Defining roles for ranged professions will be difficult. There are not very many combat situations where rifles aren't a far superior tool for the job. It's why armies are fielded with rifles. Hand guns in combat are more a weapon of last resort. The only advantage is at short range when acquiring additional targets not in your line of sight or tight spaces. But I don't think the game can represent this accurately.
The real advantage of Handguns is conceal ability and portability, but unless there is a penalty for always walking around with weapons equipped, like giving you tef in cities, this can't be represented either.
Which leaves us with combination of defensive power/ offensive power or offensive power / abilities trade offs.
Another option, which would be best if the game can make it work with lag, is running speeds. Higher DPS weapons and stronger armor slow you down. With the equip delay this would allow lower DPS professions the choice of when and where to fight.
You can't run as fast while doing this, but keeping the rifle shouldered while moving allows you to keep a relatively stable eye looking down to the barrel and sights which give better accuracy at range.
Defining roles for ranged professions will be difficult. There are not very many combat situations where rifles aren't a far superior tool for the job. It's why armies are fielded with rifles. Hand guns in combat are more a weapon of last resort. The only advantage is at short range when acquiring additional targets not in your line of sight or tight spaces. But I don't think the game can represent this accurately.
The real advantage of Handguns is conceal ability and portability, but unless there is a penalty for always walking around with weapons equipped, like giving you tef in cities, this can't be represented either.
Which leaves us with combination of defensive power/ offensive power or offensive power / abilities trade offs.
Another option, which would be best if the game can make it work with lag, is running speeds. Higher DPS weapons and stronger armor slow you down. With the equip delay this would allow lower DPS professions the choice of when and where to fight.
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