Rifleman Archive

In order to really find out the new melee damage multiplier that commandos have, I gave my friend an axe and we proceeded to make a few tests in duel.

The axe had stats of 24-98 attack, AP0, kinetic type damage.

I took off all my armor and he proceeded to attack me numerous times while I held several weapons. When I say numerous, I mean at least 30-40 auto attacks for every type of weapon I tested.

The results?

Here is the combat window spread of damage that he did on me while I held:

- a rifle: 40-113

- a commando weapon: 41-91

- a pistol: 41-45!!!!

I really don't understand how it's possible while using a weapon with such a spread as a 24-98 axe.

I've been studying the combat mechanics almost since the game went live and I thought I had it pretty much figured out, but that baffles me.

Regular auto attacks are supposed to do 1.5 times the listed damage of the weapon in the examine window, so that would bring that 24-98 to a 36-147 in PvE. After PvP 75% damage reduction, that would bring it to a 9-37 spread in the combat window in PvP. No matter the melee damage multipliers assigned to each type of weapon, we should still see a spread where the max damage is roughly equal to 4 times the min damage while using that particular axe.

First I was baffled to see that the rifle still took more damage than the commando, then I was completely amazed by the fact that equipping a pistol made all swings pretty much equal...

Something is definitely weird... It's almost as if there is a cap to min damage. And even then, the numbers still can't be properly explained by the supposed 2.5 multipliers of commando's weapons and rifles.

Does anyone have any idea what could explain what I observed?

Was hoping I wasn't the only one that suddenly felt like I was shooting with paper wads tonight. I didn't bother checking my combat log........but as I was trekking across Tatooine and came across a few npc Dune Stalkers that aggroed I got mauled. 5 different times!

Normally if I just keep moving and let my character autofire on the closest aggroing Dune Stalker, I kill it with out breaking a sweat or breaking stride. Not so tonight. As I was barely scratching these npc's they were raping me. Definitely think they still have damage screwed up.

Commandos have a 2x multiplier, not 2.5x as us.. so that's not strange. That the pistol doesn't go below 40 is weird though.. but it seems like 40 is a minimum cap. Cause with the extra 75% damage reduction almost _all_ weapons did 40-50

Quas, the thing is, wether the multiplier is 2 or 2.5, that still doesn't explain those numbers I observed.

Even if there was somehow a min damage cap of 40 in PvP (which would be ridiculously stupid...) we should still see a max hit of 37 using a pistol (if it had a 1.0 melee multiplier), a 74 max hit for a weapon with a 2.0 multiplier and a 92 max hit for a weapon with a 2.5 multiplier.

91 max hit while holding a commando's weapon? 113 while using a rifle? Those numbers are way out there. The only thing that could make a little sense of those would be that the 91 is indeed roughly equal to 2.0 times the max dmg observed while holding a gun, and that the 113 is around 2.5 times the max damage while holding a gun.

But why would the gun get a max damage of 45 instead of the predicted 37? And most importantly what is that oberved min damage cap of 40?!?

Does it make a difference what order the calculations are done in? What I mean by that is in your statement you said the auto attack is multiplied by 1.5, then the 75% damage reduction is taken into account, finally the 2.0, or 2.5 multiplier is factored in. What happens if it is given the 1.5 for auto attack, then the 2.5 multiplier, then the 75% reduction? Seems to me it would give a much larger variance. Of course, I was too lazy to do any of the math, but it's just something to consider.

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jedichuck wrote:

Was hoping I wasn't the only one that suddenly felt like I was shooting with paper wads tonight. I didn't bother checking my combat log........but as I was trekking across Tatooine and came across a few npc Dune Stalkers that aggroed I got mauled. 5 different times!

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Even after the 'hotfixes' damage output is lower than before. Accuracy is not a factor in this equation at all. Evenwith 19:20 accuracy,usingHeadshot 3I can barely hit a MOB for 2k, whereas before I wouldusually hit for 2k, sometimes even breaking 3k after the modifiers.Using a prenerf 126-440 damage 10.2 speed T-21. What has changed? I know there are new movement/accuracy modifiers, but that should affect to-hit bonuses not damage to a target, correct?

Davis_Ranze, it doesn't matter when you factor in the PvP modifier or the auto attack multiplier, etc, as long as they are just multiplication and division (no addition or substraction involved), you can do them at any time in the equation. (98*1.5)/4 = (98/4)*1.5 = 98*(1.5/4) = 36.75

hmm it seems it is the same error against all types of defender. Is it possible that it is not a general1.5 multiplier to all attacks but a 2? I can't remember reading any exact number on this before and a 2 here will bring the maximum damage up to

rifle: 123

commando: 98

pistol: 49

these numbers looks to be in better agreement right, since they are little above what you noted as maximum.

I could be wrong though...

There does indeed seem to be a cap on minimum damage. I noticed this exact same phenomenum when I was running my accuracy test (I used a cdef pistol/rifle). My guess is that there's a minimum damage (40?) and a minimum spread (1-4?). However, there were certain instances where the minimum damage dropped to about 25. IIRC, those events were where the shooter had a large negative accuracy due to relatively low accuracy skill, autofire, and range mods. It's possible there is some sort of adjustment due to accuracy in the damage spread.

Note that your results are otherwise exactly inline with expectations. 111 = 37*3, and 92 = 37*2.5. Your experiment implies the rifle multiplier is 3x while the commando multiplier is 2.5x. Pistol multiplier looks to be ~1.25.

Oh good, I thought it was just my rifle that never could do an master headshot over 1000 in damage... lets hope they fix it.

That may be true that base damage is down, but I'm still getting hit for 500+ damage by a pistol lol then again I've been one shotting some people lol so it all good with me, right tactics right time, a lil luck and the right skill..... Rifles can be deadly in PvP now, at least mine is, I go to AH solo and pick off rebels 1-3 at a time.

Zarqon, no the actual damage multiplier over listed stats of the weapon has always been exactly 1.5. Moreover, on the course of so many auto attacks, I expect the numbers I have seen to be at least at the 99% percentile of possible max damage.

Noules, I am glad that you also noticed a new "minimum dmg cap" but the numbers are still not "exactly inline with expectations" as you commented. 113>111 and 92>91. Freak occurences like that simply could not have happened and been explained by a 2.5x for commando and a 3.0x for rifles. The only thing that seem to make a little bit of sense in those numbers is that 45.5*2=91 and that 45.2*2.5=113. But why would 45 be used as the max damage instead of 37?

Forget the 92>91 in my last post, it's only the 113 that couldn't be explained. And I also got several 112 during the test with rifles...