Rifleman Archive
Thread: Humbly bowing befor the seasoned rifleman with questions.
dimmu-borgir wrote:
we dont know.
I'll chime in on this one.....
I don't believe that rifles will shoot any further in the upcoming Galactic Nerf. However we can all hope and pray that rifles will shoot farther than other ranged weapons.
My plan is not to pick up a melee class, but rather to go back to Ranger in hopes that I will be able to "set up" my shots with greater sucess.
With these developers assume the worst-
Dark Lord Of the Developers, TH "CH will be fine after we revamp em, don't worry. You get to use animal specials now, oh and player mounts"
TechnoHic wrote:
Back in the day of SWG release I picked up a cdef rifle then when I got my DLT20a I thought myself uber to kill a durni in one shot and felt like a sniper. I soon found however; that durnis are feeble creatures, as expected, and I could not be a real sniper as things will not go down in one good sniper shot. That coupled with my inability to have more than 500 in my mind pool made me leave rifles shortly after attaining novice.
Soon, people found ways of gettting past the heavy mind drain, but I hear them say rifleman are more of machine gunners than snipers. Still not what I really was looking for.
Now I hear word of how the CB will be changing this. But at the same time, headshots will be harder to land. But they said a rifleman wil be truly dangerous if he/she has time to set up prone, which I do like as it makes me feel more like a sniper.
Being a sniper is probably why most people took up this profession (assuming they are not FOTM or Holo Grinders). But most of us soon realize that this will never work because of the distances involved. It is simply not possible to be a sniper at 64m:you cannot hide from your enemy and it takes virtually no time at all for a melee character, to whom we are most vulnerable, to cover that 64m, so prone = dead.
But thedevs have always assumed thatriflemen would be fighting prone. Look at our specials. Cover requires you to be prone.Surpriseshot is supposed torequire you being in cover. Concealshot works best when you are prone (though you do not have to be in cover to use it). Strafeshot removes cover and delays the target if theywere in cover. And all of our posture change specials are posture change up. Add to the fact that, for ranged professions, the higher the posture of the targetthe better the chance of hitting them and that your accuracy increases dramatically if you are prone. From all that it is easy to see that they have always assumed the default attack posture of Riflemen was to be prone and that they are expecting to fight other people who are in lowered posture. This is especially true since Strafeshot is obviously supposed to be used against other Riflemen in cover since only rifle users can use cover and the effects only work against a target in cover.
My questions are though, if you set up prone for a good shot, will it be accurate as well as lethal, or just put you in a bad place for someone to charge up to you and take you out?
They are apparently bent on making us snipers. Go check the answer to our"first question." They have specifically stated this. However, they are taking away everyone's ability to spam high damage shots (i.e., increasing the cost of specials), gravely reducing the effectiveness of targeted pool attacks, and eliminating our biggest strength, the ability to target an unhealable pool, by making mind as healable as the other pools. This is going to greatly reduce the amount of damage we can do, and all the damage we do now will be healable. Add to that that they have apparently given into the idea that we are supposed to fire slow because "slow weapons" will "fire slow even at Master."
On the other hand, it is unlikely they will change the max range of rifles nor is it likely they will take us off radar or eliminate the autoresponse attack from shooting a target. Additionally it takes virtually no time at all to cover 64m, you cannot heal damage done to you while you are prone, it takes a good deal of time to get up and start moving from a prone state, and they are going to make us run slower while holding a rifle and take longer to change from a rifle to another weapon when we do get caught. As it is, nobody goes prone in PvP because it is suicide; all of this means it will make even less sense to do so.So I really cannot see how a Rifleman is supposed to be deadlier if he is prone. From what I see, he will just be dead if he does.
How slow will a rifleman be? Would it be safe to carry a melee profession around and not run at all, just switch to melee upon aproach?
The idea has always been that penalties thatapply to a profession apply to having that weapon equipped. Therefore, it will not be that you will be slow because you are a Rifleman. It will be that you will be slow carrying a rifle. But no one knows how slow you will be or what you can do to overcome this.
Lastly, and maybe my biggest concern, wil rifles reach further, as you would expect from a rifle, rather than just more accurate than other weapons at max range, to compensate for obvious vulnerabilities you put yourself at to snipe?
I believe that most veteran Riflemen have accepted that we will neverbe given longer range (or at least additional enough range to be significant), which is why most have accepted that our role is "gunner" (basic infantry), not sniper. It would be possible to do so, but it would require more processor attention, more data being passed, and do nothing but increase lag for everyone. It is highly unlikely this will be implemented. So I believe they will try to make sniping work within the current range, which would only work if we could dosignificant damage before they get to us, but the whole "rebalance" is designed to reduce the amount of damage everyone causes. So theymay attempt to make us snipers, and they may attempt to compensate for that by making us more accurate, but it will be to no avail. Prone will still mean death, and the distances involved will, in my opinion, make rifleman unviable.
These are questions I know, no one probably knows, but I am just trying to get a feel for if the devs are making this truly a sniping profession, or just cannon fodder as so many professions become after nerf.
Mmmm...always moving the future is, but fodder I see.
PyscoJuggalo wrote:
With these developers assume the worst-
Dark Lord Of the Developers, TH "CH will be fine after we revamp em, don't worry. You get to use animal specials now, oh and player mounts"
Doh, I hung onto CH for 2 months after they whacked em in hopes they'd make them "fine" again.
I personally expect riflemen to become a very difficult class to play - and a not very viable pvp class. A small speed reduction reduces the amount of damage you can do, but wouldn't gimp us too much.A removal of mind damage makes us a random pool targeter - getting more difficult, but still ok. Then, you make it so that we can't hit unless we're prone or in cover, and we become PVE only. You can cover45 meters in about5 seconds, which it sounds likewill be the time that it takes to switch guns (3 seconds)or stand after being prone or in cover. I'm afraid that we are better off as heavy gunners due to the range restrictions, but I've been riflemen since Sept and am not about to leave now....so, bring on the cb lol.
Oh, and these are just my speculations as to what they are doing to the prof, there's nothing official so really, we know nothing...
Message Edited by OditeFosore on 06-07-2004 12:00 PM
PyscoJuggalo wrote:
With these developers assume the worst-
QTE
Sotaudi wrote:
TechnoHic wrote:
Lastly, and maybe my biggest concern, wil rifles reach further, as you would expect from a rifle, rather than just more accurate than other weapons at max range, to compensate for obvious vulnerabilities you put yourself at to snipe?
I believe that most veteran Riflemen have accepted that we will neverbe given longer range (or at least additional enough range to be significant), which is why most have accepted that our role is "gunner" (basic infantry), not sniper. It would be possible to do so, but it would require more processor attention, more data being passed, and do nothing but increase lag for everyone. It is highly unlikely this will be implemented. So I believe they will try to make sniping work within the current range, which would only work if we could dosignificant damage before they get to us, but the whole "rebalance" is designed to reduce the amount of damage everyone causes. So theymay attempt to make us snipers, and they may attempt to compensate for that by making us more accurate, but it will be to no avail. Prone will still mean death, and the distances involved will, in my opinion, make rifleman unviable.
I figured they wont give more than 64m, but maybe rifles stay at 64m, carbines dropped to 45m and pistols to 25m, not to say they need to be weaker, I know those 2 professions have plenty of issues, just its an obvious concept of a rifle.
I see what your saying though as 64m still isnt enough to deal with a charging target who will close that gap in no time. I guess thats why they say you need a brawler keeping your target busy.
Well, I see people seem to have the same concern as me on these questions. Maybe they will elaborate more to each of the professions as to what to expect but given the DEVs track record, I doubt it.
TechnoHic wrote:
TechnoHic wrote:
I figured they wont give more than 64m, but maybe rifles stay at 64m, carbines dropped to 45m and pistols to 25m, not to say they need to be weaker, I know those 2 professions have plenty of issues, just its an obvious concept of a rifle.
I see what your saying though as 64m still isnt enough to deal with a charging target who will close that gap in no time. I guess thats why they say you need a brawler keeping your target busy.
Well, I see people seem to have the same concern as me on these questions. Maybe they will elaborate more to each of the professions as to what to expect but given the DEVs track record, I doubt it.
The problems as I see it is that Pistoleers would complain that Rifles and Carbines can now kite them and that they could only kite melee if they were within a narrow 5m zone. Carbines would complain that Rifles could kite them. And that would only be partly true, because Rifles would not be able to kite anyone if they were holding their rifles.
And with regard to requring a melee tank. Will melee require a ranged profession, or specifically, a riflemanto do damage for them? I do not think so. Why then does a rifleman require a melee tank to do his job?
Sotaudi wrote:
And with regard to requring a melee tank. Will melee require a ranged profession, or specifically, a riflemanto do damage for them? I do not think so. Why then does a rifleman require a melee tank to do his job?
Just another ay of them making melee more viable in a futuristic world. That with the running slower carrrying a bif gun, I bet it doesnt mean the same for pikeman or swordsman.
Truthfully I like to have one of each so I dont get kited and yet compete in a brawl but they seem to be making it more of a meleers world all the time. If you take only one combat profession after this CB, it appears melee will be the only way to go, or maybe pistoleer wont be slowed down.
Hmm, I wonder if its larger weapons, or just range classes. If just larger weapons, I dont see the Jawa or SG82, or the spraystick as large, and the spraysticks speed may come in handy if now you cant fire a T21 or anything like that at speed cap.
Hmm, by profession or by weapon. If its by weapon, maybe it wont be so bad.