Rifleman Archive
Thread: Nerf This.
Melekai wrote:I want lightsister resist armor.
DavidGX wrote:
1. Coupled with the unbalanced mind pool and a jawa rifle, this makes it seem to some people that stun needs a nerf. Truth is, there's nothing wrong with stun. It by itself is no more over or underpowered than any other damage type.
2. Considering that most armor is either vulnerable or very weak against only stun (not counting lightsaber) this singles out stun as somehow "overpowered". Most armor is 70 - 90% to all other stats (again not counting lightsister) so when you go from 80 or so resists to zip, it makes a pretty big impact on the person taking the damage and makes it seem worse than it actually is.
Typos are teh suk.
It's not the fact that its JUST stun damage, it's that it is LIGHT ARMOR PIERCING/STUN damage. No other stun weapon in the game has light armor piercing, but the one profession that does can target the only non-healable pool(save jedi).
DavidGX wrote:
I'm getting kinda tired of all the nerf cries from people being owned by rifleman in combat. People get killed by a rifleman and scream "OVERPOWERED!! NERF!! NERF!! CAP THEIR SPEED!! LOWER THEIR DMG!!"
Look..
Rifles seem overpowered not because there's anything inherently overpowered about the rifleman profession itself. The problem is the pool that the rifleman targets, mind, is underpowered.
Problems with the mind pool...
1. The mind pool unhealable. No real stims can heal it. You can pop stim B's all day and keep health and action up but not mind. The only way to heal mind in combat (minus foods, obvious stomach filling drawbacks apply there) is the combat medic "heal mind" ability. We all know how much that sucks.
2. Buffs? Don't make me laugh. Sure you can buff mind and it's substats. But with the high powered doctor buffs of today (ranging between 2200 - 2800) mind buffs are less than half of that. They take longer to apply and you need both a master dancer and a master musician to get even that, having to get buffs from one at a time.
Now, stop and think.. what would happen if it were health that had these problems and not mind? No rifle nerf cries, everyone would be calling for a pistoleer nerf.
What if it was the action pool instead? Yep, nerf carbineer!
And what about stun damage? There's nothing wrong with stun damage. Stun is a perfectly fine damage type just like all the others. The flak that it's taken is because of a few things..
1. Coupled with the unbalanced mind pool and a jawa rifle, this makes it seem to some people that stun needs a nerf. Truth is, there's nothing wrong with stun. It by itself is no more over or underpowered than any other damage type.
2. Considering that most armor is either vulnerable or very weak against only stun (not counting lightsaber) this singles out stun as somehow "overpowered". Most armor is 70 - 90% to all other stats (again not counting lightsister) so when you go from 80 or so resists to zip, it makes a pretty big impact on the person taking the damage and makes it seem worse than it actually is.
Lots of people call for riflemans speed to be "capped" at 3 or higher seconds. Why? The only problems with rifleman are the ones listed above. Without those this would be a laughable idea at best.
Rifleman as they are now are defined three ways..
1. High range
2. High damage
3. Low defense
Meaning that rifleman suck at melee range. Which is true. Rifleman miss more running around at 10m than you think.
To get the high damage that we're known for, we have to be fast. I've never seen the devs say "well rifleman is the slowest!" Truth is we're high dmg, low def. If we have our speed lowered, then our damage must be raised accordingly or we are no longer viable.
The uber armor and buffs (never originally intended btw, as the devs have stated) make pistoleer and carbineer less effective, making the gap between rifleman and the other ranged profs seem even larger.
The only real solution to all of this is to nerf armor, nerf buffs, balance the 3 pools so that all are equally healable and buffable. All of which the devs seem intent on doing.
Rifleman have problems too guys, we aren't pvp gods even with the current imbalances.
Cover? Joke. Conceal shot? Useless in pvp. Mindshot1/2/3? HAH. We need some fixing just like every other profession.
Fred_Skinner wrote:
Removing the AP from Jawa won't help you. AP vs AR is egnored if you are vunerable.
MagicalHAt wrote:
"Cause hitting for 1.5k damage is balanced"
"Cause knocking me down so I can't attack backis balanced"
Whelp I guess that means we should nerf carbineer right? Hmm, funny how usingyour role accurately makes you unbalanced. Or perhaps it's the fact that our role has been pumped up against creatures due to higher armor and resists and life is what the devs consider hard. Or perhaps it's because buffs allow us to fire forever instead of having a 10 shot maximum. Perhaps it's the fact that now rifleman can wear armor and soak up their opponents damage instead of getting hit whole hog from a pistol. Perhaps it's any if not all of the reasons that have been listed in this entire thread you didn't bother to read. But then thinking logically is hard, asking for us to get nerfed rather then attacking the causes is easy.
MagicalHAt wrote:
"Cause hitting for 1.5k damage is balanced"
I had assumed he meant kill stealing krayt dragons xav. But still, I don't see how nerfing us makes their roles work any better or really attack any of the root problems with combat now a days.
XaverriJade7 wrote:
MagicalHAt wrote:
"Cause hitting for 1.5k damage is balanced"
Show me the server that's mass-producing those 4800 max T-21s(what you'd need to hit for 1500 in PvP with 75% Energy resist armor) then you can talk.
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:
I had assumed he meant kill stealing krayt dragons xav. But still, I don't see how nerfing us makes their roles work any better or really attack any of the root problems with combat now a days.
XaverriJade7 wrote:
MagicalHAt wrote:
"Cause hitting for 1.5k damage is balanced"
Show me the server that's mass-producing those 4800 max T-21s(what you'd need to hit for 1500 in PvP with 75% Energy resist armor) then you can talk.
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:
MagicalHAt wrote:
"Cause hitting for 1.5k damage is balanced"
"Cause knocking me down so I can't attack backis balanced"
Whelp I guess that means we should nerf carbineer right? Hmm, funny how usingyour role accurately makes you unbalanced. Or perhaps it's the fact that our role has been pumped up against creatures due to higher armor and resists and life is what the devs consider hard. Or perhaps it's because buffs allow us to fire forever instead of having a 10 shot maximum. Perhaps it's the fact that now rifleman can wear armor and soak up their opponents damage instead of getting hit whole hog from a pistol. Perhaps it's any if not all of the reasons that have been listed in this entire thread you didn't bother to read. But then thinking logically is hard, asking for us to get nerfed rather then attacking the causes is easy.
Show me how kiting some one around from 64m range using a huge gun that should be a sniper rifle should not be as fast as it and should not be able to shoot and run like they do...
Show me how thats balanced.....
Rifleman need to be snipers they dont need to be 50 cal sharp shooters.....
Im all for rifleman being high damage aslong as they get HARSH accuracy penaltys for shooting while moving.
What I envision is a role based pvp system
Rifleman: Long range sharp shooters high damage slow but accurate cant kite due to weapons weight and there pin point accuracy
Little or no defense to meele as the object is to kill meele before they get close.
Carbine A mix between rifle and pistoleer.... Decent damage decent defense a good all rounder Med range
Pistoleer: A low damage high defense Short ranged fighter.
Message Edited by MagicalHAt on 07-30-2004 11:14 PM
Alllll that aside, Rifleman has changed very little from launch. We got a huge nerf, followed by a small fix(when every other profession got these fixes). Why is Rifleman so overpowered now? Let's test something- Rifleman vs. Profession X. Neither combatant has the luxury of buffs or armor. The vast majority of the time, it will be the Rifleman who loses. Rifleman is a hard(though not impossible) class to play under these conditions. This is how it was for a very long time. Now that buffs and armor effectively negate our weaknesses, we seem overpowered. But I ask you- could it not be that the buffs and armor are overpowered? This is the case and this should be people's primary concern. Not to nerf this profession, then that one, then that one until no one can do anything anymore. Please consider these things in the future. Thank you.
MagicalHAt wrote:
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:
MagicalHAt wrote:
"Cause hitting for 1.5k damage is balanced"
"Cause knocking me down so I can't attack backis balanced"
Whelp I guess that means we should nerf carbineer right? Hmm, funny how usingyour role accurately makes you unbalanced. Or perhaps it's the fact that our role has been pumped up against creatures due to higher armor and resists and life is what the devs consider hard. Or perhaps it's because buffs allow us to fire forever instead of having a 10 shot maximum. Perhaps it's the fact that now rifleman can wear armor and soak up their opponents damage instead of getting hit whole hog from a pistol. Perhaps it's any if not all of the reasons that have been listed in this entire thread you didn't bother to read. But then thinking logically is hard, asking for us to get nerfed rather then attacking the causes is easy.
Show me how kiting some one around from 64m range using a huge gun that should be a sniper rifle Why should it be a sniper rifle? Because you say so? should not be as fast as it and should not be able to shoot and run like they do... Make sure Commandos can't runand shoot either. Also BHs with their LLCs.And restrict all melee moves to 5 meters(approximately 15 feet if not using the metric system). That's more than realistic. You don't think the current 20 meters is overpowering do you? We don't complain about that of you and you shouldn't complain about shooting a rifle while running. T-21 aside, most rifles and carbines are about the same size, are they not? Make sure you include them in this crusade to slow down Riflemen too. I hope you can see that nerfing everyone, helps no one.
Show me how thats balanced..... What if we did have a sniper rifle? It would have to have a range of 300 meters or more. Otherwise, it is not a sniper rifle. How's that for balance? Want to be kited at 64 meters or 300? Incidentally, melee players tend to know that letting themselves get kited is pretty inefficient. You fight with your strengths, not your weaknesses. Expecting to win while putting yourself at a disadvantage is just you asking for an 'I win' button. We don't want those. For anyone.
Rifleman need to be snipers they dont need to be 50 cal sharp shooters..... We need to be what the community decides, not what you decide.
Im all for rifleman being high damage aslong as they get HARSH accuracy penaltys for shooting while moving.
We don't? Pistoleers get +15 accuracy while standing- when is anyone not standing? No one else gets this mod. They also get +30 while moving. Carbineers get +30 while moving. We get +10 accuracy while moving. That +10 doesn't translate into anything for you to complain about. We have no problem with the Pistoleer and Carbineers' mods. We could ask for more accuracy while kneeling or while prone 'just because', butwe don't. We accept our weaknesses and deal with them.
What I envision is a role based pvp system It doesn't seem like anyone's vision is important. The Devs seem focused on doing whatever is in their vision. When they nerf you, it was their doing, not ours.
Rifleman: Long range sharp shooters high damage slow but accurate cant kite due to weapons weight and there pin point accuracy We are the slowest firing class already. SEAs change that and they are far from free. Call these attachments overpowered if you like, I cannot 100% disagree. The profession alone has no speed problems. And guess what? We will move slower after the revamp just for holding any rifle!
Little or no defense to meele as the object is to kill meele before they get close. We get this. When a melee opponent attacks us, they get a to-hit bonus against us because we have a rifle in hand. It negates all of that melee defense we get and more. Make perfect sense? No. But it is a balancing mechanism and we accept it and deal with it.
Carbine A mix between rifle and pistoleer.... Decent damage decent defense a good all rounder Med range
Pistoleer: A low damage high defense Short ranged fighter. So we can take away the ability for Pistoleers to shoot up to 64 meters, right? Pistoleers are as accurate at 64 meters as Riflemen are at 0 meters. Neat, huh?
Message Edited by MagicalHAt on 07-30-2004 11:14 PM
MagicalHAt wrote:
Show me how kiting some one around from 64m range using a huge gun that should be a sniper rifle should not be as fast as it and should not be able to shoot and run like they do...
The T21 isn't a sniper rifle. It's a light machine gun.
Rifleman need to be snipers they dont need to be 50 cal sharp shooters.....
There can't be snipers in this game. Not with a max range of 64m which can be covered in seconds. Inability to hide from the radar and no one shot kills. All are hallmarks of snipers. If you want to see unbalanced then make Rifleman true snipers. A one shot kill from 200m would change your mind quick I bet.
Im all for rifleman being high damage aslong as they get HARSH accuracy penaltys for shooting while moving.
We already do.
What I envision is a role based pvp system
Rifleman: Long range sharp shooters high damage slow but accurate cant kite due to weapons weight and there pin point accuracy
First there is no long range. 64m is shorter than most rifle ranges. Secondly there is no basis for rifles firing slower. They use the same technology as both pistols and carbines. They all would have about the same mechanical speed limitations. The idea that rifles fire slower is a myth.
Little or no defense to meele as the object is to kill meele before they get close.
Already exists. You see the Riflemans defense vs melee however you don't see the melee to hit bonus which negates most of it.
Carbine A mix between rifle and pistoleer.... Decent damage decent defense a good all rounder Med range
You forgot to mention that they are status attackers. They have mid level offense and low defense.
Pistoleer: A low damage high defense Short ranged fighter.
They aren't short range fighters because they have the same range as the other ranged professions. They are suppose to be high in defenses, mid in combat multipliers, and low in offense.