Rifleman Archive
Thread: Worst Things About Rifleman
This is why I think the best we can ever hope for is a 76m range increase, and I'm guessing the devs would want to give us some more major penalties, if we were the only ones shooting futher than 64m.
Why would people choose to be bad at long range with a gun and do health damage compared to doing mind damage and good at long range. The rifle needs major disadvantages if it is ever going to live up to the "longest range" title.
We can't on one hand say we should be the only class that hits people past 50m, then say we should just miss at close range. Long range is just plain better than short range so there needs to be an added penalty for being good at long range.
Also the damage on strafe 2 does turn us into the "damage kings" if they were to limit the other weapons give us more range AND take away the 2.5x melee why would someone NOT choose to be a rifleman?
We would become the next CH/BH.
I hit a mob for 4791 in 1 shot using strafeshot2 last night. This is an AE attack with insane damage, it really does turn us into the ranged killing machinesthat we should be.
I understand that people are finding it hard to even get up to master to find out that SS2 is amazing, but if we make the rifleman too easy, or just too good, everyone will start training it.
Now, I thought I would chime in with my thoughts on this stuff (a little late):
Melee Damage Mutliplier: I see this one both ways, but I tend to think that it ends up being a good way to force us to stay at our intended range. I would definetly be a diehard advocate of it staying if we got an increased max range.
HAM Costs: I'm a bit mixed on this one, too. I have focus and willpower at max for my wookiee char (650, 600), and I generally feel like I can do specials as much as I need to as long as I evaluate the scenario before I jump into combat. However, pistol and carbine specials drawing from *healable* pools gives them a HUGE advantage. At this point, I can deal with it, but I think that toning down rifles mind costs a tad and spreading the cut portion to the other pools would make us more balanced. Right now I don't think that it should be a major change at all, but I might change my tune when I get the master rifleman speed boost...
Max range: I think that the primary thing that keeps max range from being different among the various weapons/professions is that it would result in lots of kiting in PvP since we all run the same speed, as noted before. However, I would really like to see there be *some* way to extend our range, and the only thing that I can think of is posture bonuses. Ie, pistols can shoot to 64m at any posture; carbines can shoot to 75m when kneeling and 85 when prone; and rifles can shoot to 85 when kneeling, 100 when prone (or some variance on these, taking draw distance into account). When standing, we all revert to 64m max range. This way, a rifleman could get a bit of a preliminary attack zone on a pistoleer by going prone, but when the pistoleer does what they should do and rushes us, we can't hammer them by kiting them and staying just outside their range.
Again, great thread. I think that if we got some more community feedback, some of these ideas would be great for Aldeon to put into the next correspondent issues submission.
Very good points, Seflyn...
As low-level rifleman (2/1/01) I for one would be happy to spend time grinding up to master if there is reward at the end. Strafe shot 2 and speed sound like that reward.
Reading these forums would make one believe that we are really gimped... but threads of sanity, like this one, are actually refreshing to read. I realize we have problems with HAM that should be addressed, but you seem to believe that we're not all that bad off in the long run, yes?
Now don't get nervous, I am NOT about to suggest moving Strafe2 down the tree. Although I do have to wonder why a skill we have not heard from since Novice Rifleman is out end-all attack. I think another of the problems we need to address as Riflemen is that the things we learn aren't really the things we need.
I personally don't have that much trouble with ranged attackers, unless they are in ridiculous numbers or /con far beyond my abilities. Yet I have an entire tree dedicated to counter-acting ranged attackers. I have two different shots that raise my enemies' postures. This is nice. I suppose. But for every one use of Startle Shot, I must fire of Supression Shot ten times as often.
Maybe what we really need to do is rethink the entire Counter-Sniper tree. Perhaps what we need is something more along the lines of Crowd Control. The only problem with that sort of change is that once you reach Master Rifleman, those sorts of skills will be mediocre compared to Strafe2. And we're back to square one. Rifleman is BROKEN until you hit Master, at which point he becomes a total bad***.
And some of you will say, "I would rather have something to look forward to than nerf the whole class just for the dabblers and newbs!" Well I agree with you. But any profession that encourages Grinding needs some reworking. Especially if that profession is supposed to be combat-oriented. One of the great things about SWG, I feel, is its emphasis that the journey is as much fun as the goal. That while you can max out your skills a little faster by PowerLeveling, it can be just as fun and rewarding to get there by actually playing the game. If Rifleman remains Broken-Until-Master, I don't think that's possible for our class.
Have fun!
False420 wrote:
Hi again. I am happy to see this thread has not turned ugly!
Good stuff here.
On another thread an idea was said that I really liked. It was the ability to target called shots. Health, Action, or Mind could be targeted. Here is a copy of the idea.
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#1 by TekDragon - "Precision eye-shot, Precision heart-shot, Precision knee-shot
These 3 skills NEED to be added to our tree, either down a branch, or at master rifleman. These 3 attacks would not only make our rifleman group friendly (without some BS flame-thrower attack) but actually make SENSE for a rifleman to have. In addition to being high-damage precision HAM pool shots, each should also offer an effect. Dizzy (or maybe blind) for eye-shot, stun for heart shot, and posture change (down) for knee shot. "
I have been in groups and I can attest to the fact that since rifles have a much slower rate of fire and our specials only attack the Mind pool, we can't REALLY make a differance in a group that has pistol users in it. They can usually shoot 2x as fast as we can for the same amounts of damage (somtimes more) at the same range with (usually) BETTER reliability. Which leads me to my next point...
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I thought this was a good idea. In line with the "sniper" feel. Comments?
See this is the kind of idea we stand a chance of getting added if we keep our disadvantages. It enables us to go to the Devs and say, "we suck here, so make us better here". Taking away those disadvantages hurts us when trying to get improvements to our class. Some of them, like the rate we use mind are a bit too bad and need changing. But I still feel 2.5x melee is fair for a class that wants to be the long range damage class of the game.
I know people hate seeing this but please just try it, put a CDEF pistol on your hotbar, when a mob gets close pull it out and warning shot them. Before people say "I shouldn't have to use a pistol", I'm sure snipers IRL carry sidearms.
Seflyn wrote:
I know people hate seeing this but please just try it, put a CDEF pistol on your hotbar, when a mob gets close pull it out and warning shot them. Before people say "I shouldn't have to use a pistol", I'm sure snipers IRL carry sidearms.
I have pistol3 just for this reason. You get close and your eating alot of fast pistol shots.
False420 wrote:
I have pistol3 just for this reason. You get close and your eating alot of fast pistol shots.
I have pistol2? for the scout blaser, super fast and low HAM costs. You do not NEED to spend any points in it at all, a CDEF does work wonders for WSing mobs that are closer than 20m.
Powerups, carry em by the crate, and skill enhancers. Know em, use em.