Rifleman Archive

Thread: Bleed Nerf

Waste93
Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:20 am
#27






-Myrick- wrote:



Bleeds have always been like this, for as long as I can remember. Bleed and as soon as the tick hits it ags on you.


If you can't play without bleeds, then you're doing something terribly wrong. I haven't used a bleed since I got flushingshot2..... and after master, I use strafe2 consistantly, unless i want to use concealshot.


And I've been a rifleman pretty much since release.






Which is exactly the point. Bleeds were useful until you got to a high enough level that you got your AoE attacks. I didn't use bleeds much either once I got Master.


But this nerf has an adverse effect on the novice Rifleman. And I'm fairly confident that if it hurts the Rifleman it would also harm other elite ranged professions the same way.





Colonel Waste - The Wookiee Crusader
Keltorr
Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:06 pm
#28






Waste93 wrote:





-Myrick- wrote:



Bleeds have always been like this, for as long as I can remember. Bleed and as soon as the tick hits it ags on you.


If you can't play without bleeds, then you're doing something terribly wrong. I haven't used a bleed since I got flushingshot2..... and after master, I use strafe2 consistantly, unless i want to use concealshot.


And I've been a rifleman pretty much since release.






Which is exactly the point. Bleeds were useful until you got to a high enough level that you got your AoE attacks. I didn't use bleeds much either once I got Master.


But this nerf has an adverse effect on the novice Rifleman. And I'm fairly confident that if it hurts the Rifleman it would also harm other elite ranged professions the same way.







I fully agree. A master rifleman doesn't rely on bleeds anyway because strafe2 does a lot of damage, but a 1-0-0-0 rifleman doesn't have the accuracy to hit often enough to do lots of damage and is best off using a bleed. However even if bleeds still stack, they've been nerfed into oblivion and the move may as well be ignored when considering strategies.


I also don't like that a bleed gives an instant aggro. I had a post a while ago called "What? Bleeding gives an NPC awareness of its surroundings?" that asked why this was because it just didn't make any sense that an NPC you hit with bleed shots from 64m would automatically find you once it started bleeding, even if you were 90m away by then, and charge at you. A rifleman's main tactics are distance and concealment and this instant attacking after bleeding messes them both up.





I have a bad feeling about this nerf


The few...the proud...the Marine-armored

cincoalto
Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:50 pm
#29

i thought i read that now multiple people's bleeds stack now, so if you have 2 riflemen with mindbleed it will actually act like 2 seperate ones instead of what used to just be one bleed per mob from only one person. So now i think that bleeds could actually be more effective with the right people... I haven't tested any of this so sorry if i m wrong its just the impression i was under...



Kman / Ifrit-
Thecker
Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:49 pm
#30

I'm not up to master yet but I have never found bleeds useful except to (try) to single pull mobs by hitting them with bleed and running out of detection range.


Autofire is much more damaging since it usually hits health. The only way I could see bleeds being useful is with some kind of kiting exploit.(as far as using them to actually kill a mob).


Admittedly I use 2hsword to finish mobs that close on me, and I'm sure some people don't have the points to get a secondary combat skill.(but I would have to say that its not terribly expensive to get some novice melee skills that are very effective.)


The new Bleed is certainly still effective in PVP against a non-mind buffed opponent, altho like the way its always been, there really isn't (or ever was) time to kill something with bleeds unless you like to kite for a very long time.


The only people I can see losing out on this nerf (if they are) is the people who were exploiting it. Lets face it they can still kite around on their bikes it just takes longer.


I also still like to use bleeds if I get a lucky hit on the mind pool or if I plan on using mindshots, it is very rare tho that the mind pool is effected by combat (especially group) before other pools are getting low.


Wearing armor against a High ham creature(relatively) you can get in some long fights even then tho its unlikely that the mind will get hit that much, tho using sword I can target it and even inflict a second bleed, I very rarely do. Again only if the circumstances are that the mind pool as been lowered alot, thru luck or tactics.


If your strategy is to do head shots, which I think is very ham intensive and specials intensive, then certainly the bleed is going to add a little damage. If you think that mind attacks are worth the expense I don't see how you can be critical of the bleed since, really these attacks are only good against weaker creature, and lower NPC's.


Maybe they should replace it with something better /shrug if so thats nothing new. As far as putting a mind bleed on a nightsister being some kind of benefit to the Group...PLEASE dont make me laugh, you will Never see a night sister die from a depleted mind pool. LOL


It's a Head shot= it isnt easy to get therefore most attacks don't hit it.







Colonel Thecker Goodheart
GTB
HARP00N
Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:13 pm
#31






Waste93 wrote:

Sure when you land the bleed you actually do damage now. But you don't do much after that.









and the damage is random pool (random pool attacks usually hit a majorityof the timehealth, then action, and least of all mind, probably cuz of the size of the body/legs/head) so that will help the pistoleers, but we're hitting mind
SniperChicken
Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:46 am
#32




This is my first post, I'm currently 2/1/1/1 Rifleman and 1/1/0/1 Teras Kasi. I started out with Rifleman in publish 5, been playing for about 1 month (just lost the "free" month a couple days ago). From what I've seen, the Rifleman (low levels of course) is using the bleeds to take out the higher level mobs to get more xp. In group fighting against the same mobs the Rifleman will get terrible xp gains, because he just can't push the damage he needs (still talking about a novice, mind you)so he is almost forced into fighting solo. (just my observations)

The mindshot stacking that has been talked about, i never even thought of,I was just using mindshot2, and letting them bleed out while using headshot 2 as well, brought them down pretty efficiently, especially with around 1000 mind damage every 20 seconds. Now what has been done to "fix" the problem is drop the bleed damage (the special obviously needs fine tuning,however, what we receivedis unacceptable) but the problem I have with the new mindshot is the fact that you're doing COMPLETELY RANDOM HAM damage with an attack that's called "MindShot". Who in their right mind would think a mindshot hits a leg, an arm, or a body for that matter!? Add to that, it's direct damage, so now you're fair game, no longer sniping like a Rifleman should be. So not only are we hitting random HAM and doing minimal bleeding, but we're also under attack now. I picked up TK just after publish 6. Been working on it non-stop since, just so I'll stand a chance against the enemies that I could take down with my rifleman with no problems 2 weeks ago. This seriously needs to be repaired. Not returned to normal, but good Lord! This is NOT a "fix" to a problem, it's gets rid of the problem entirely, while destroying a small part of our livelihood. Personally I think it needs to be taken into consideration. Maybe not immediately, but SOON.

This affects the wrong target rifleman, you don't want to take away from the lower level rifleman, it only makes the masters more elite than they already are, because suddenly there are less and less rifleman.





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Xian-Thariuz
Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:45 am
#33

Is there a way to lure something out of a pack other than bleed? The fact that it has been reduced does cause problems but I did like the fact that the MOB came after me after the bleed tick. Most of the time when I used bleed it is to draw something out of a pack. I'd shoot it once with bleed, move about 70m away and wait for it to come running and not have to worry about getting mauled by the entire pack. If they changed it so the bleed didn't auto-aggro I'd be fine with that because it is kinda ridiculous that because something is bleeding they know exactly what made them bleed and where it's at, but if they did the bleed power should go back to what it was.
WayneInAustin
Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:11 am
#34

By the way, SniperChicken (I like that name:smileyvery-happy...


Welcome to the rifleman boards.Currently it is one of the more well-behaved forums. Always good to see new blood come and join our discussions.






____________________________________________
Way'ev-Da on Eclipse
Came to life in Restuss, on Rori, 07/03/2003
Master Rifleman 10/18/2003 - present
Master Smuggler 1/25/2004 - 11/05/2004
Dancer buffs + Muon + Musician Buffs + Vasarian Brandy = Sex, Drugs, Rock&Roll, and Alcohol(Man, I love this job!)


hall0559
Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:13 pm
#35






Waste93 wrote:

Did a quick test with the new bleed system and frankly it's garbage.


Bleeds have become almost worthless with the massive damage reduction. I have no problems with the resists reducing them, but it appears they are being reduced even further than that.


A 300 or so point bleed tick every 20 seconds against a 12k HAM MOB is basically worthless. I use almost that much HAM just to apply the bleed.


I used a bleed on a Bol. Combat spam said 1021 damage. That use to be the amount that was done per tick. When the damage actually went off it was for 323. This was with a T21 against a Bol. Last time I checked they didn't have 68% energy resists.


Bleeds now serve little to no use. So either fix them so they are useful, or remove them completely and replace them with something worth using.


Sorry but I'm rather ticked about this. A good useful skill that all combat professions had is now rather useless. Sure when you land the bleed you actually do damage now. But you don't do much after that.


I think we need to get as many as the combat correspondent as we can and push for this to be fixed. I have few doubts that many of the combat professions are going to be highly irritated at this change.


And before a redname or someone says "It will all make sense with the new combat system". I doubt that. The only combat system changes we've seen have so far been against the player. MOB HAMs were increased, as was the frequency of them using specials (at no cost I might add). While the players to counter this have seen a bleeding nerf. That's it so far.





/agree




>
Average Number Of Gnort Kills A Day: 17000
"Have you killed your Gnort today?"
Chickenlad
Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:39 am
#36

Klaw, you mentioned you were discussing this on the correspondant forums. Still happening? Or has the thread dropped to oblivion? Any chance for a partial reversion? These changes are killing mah small NS group...Thanks.
Keltorr
Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:10 am
#37






Xian-Thariuz wrote:
Is there a way to lure something out of a pack other than bleed? The fact that it has been reduced does cause problems but I did like the fact that the MOB came after me after the bleed tick. Most of the time when I used bleed it is to draw something out of a pack. I'd shoot it once with bleed, move about 70m away and wait for it to come running and not have to worry about getting mauled by the entire pack. If they changed it so the bleed didn't auto-aggro I'd be fine with that because it is kinda ridiculous that because something is bleeding they know exactly what made them bleed and where it's at, but if they did the bleed power should go back to what it was.



Yup, we've been double whammied essentially. I say just return bleeds to what they were before. Hindsight is always 20/20 and I think we cansee clearly now that the rain is gone...




I have a bad feeling about this nerf


The few...the proud...the Marine-armored

Chickenlad
Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:15 pm
#38

Klaw? Any word on this?
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