Rifleman Archive

As long as we're trying to play from a Proffesion based prospective while the Devs are programming and balancing from a Class and Subclass based system, you're never going to see balance. All of us, players and Devs alike, should just accept that after the CU SWG ceased to be proffesion based and is now Class/sub-class based and drop all the pretense. As soon as we do, we can get on with the true balancing of classes and finally fix this game. The SWG we started with is gone, and never coming back. Trying to hold on to what doesn't exist anymore is now the main factor to what's keeping so much of this game broken.

Unfortunately every single combat profession player is in the same boat...pistoleer, carbineer, rifleman, pikeman, fencer...etc etc.. Not everyone can afford to be a multi combat profession toon. Otherwise we will have no crafters. And having no crafters is a bad thing cuz the crafting portion of this game is one of it's defining characteristics. As it now stands, pure crafters are becoming a rare breed as an increased number of crafters have to pick up at least a combat profession to function on even a basic level. But that's for another thread.

Has anyone looked at the melee side of the fence (excuse the pun) and seen if they having the same problem with cross profession abilites imbalancing combat?

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Slysix wrote:

I'm not calling for a nerf here...I'm calling on a limitation on which weapon can be used with a profession's ability. A person with a rifle should not be able to root but if he picks up some pistoleer skills he can. So he should be able to root USING A PISTOL. And this is the point I'm trying to get across to some people who seem to want to ignore that fact. The only crowd control special a rifleman can use slows down a target. It's not a knockdown and it's not a root. The only special a person equiped with a rifle should be like wise be able to use the slow special. To do other special not inherent with a rifle profession should incur penalties as stated above. This should be applied across the board with ALL weapons and ALL specials. The fact that they now have weapons that only have CL as a requirement exaberates the problem.

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there IS a penalty, its called using SP. thats why there are only 250 SP in the game.... if i spent SP in getting RM, why should i NOT be able to use any other ranged special?? thats the main point of the CU!! you want to nerf the CU! if i get pistolerr 0003 for the stopping shot, (that i have atm, unless i drop it for the charge shot - i am still undecided what i like btr, charge or stopping) then i spent presious points to GET it...

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Zaax wrote:

there IS a penalty, its called using SP. thats why there are only 250 SP in the game.... if i spent SP in getting RM, why should i NOT be able to use any other ranged special?? thats the main point of the CU!! you want to nerf the CU! if i get pistolerr 0003 for the stopping shot, (that i have atm, unless i drop it for the charge shot - i am still undecided what i like btr, charge or stopping) then i spent presious points to GET it...

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By no means am I saying that you should not be able to use any other ranged special. However you must use it with the appropriate weapon. If you want to use stopping shot, you should use it with a pistol. To use it with a rifle should incur penalties.

One of the purposes of the CURB is to bring balance to combat. Pistoleer, Carbineer and Rifleman are balanced professions when the specials learned with them are used with the weapons they were mean to be used with. Unfortunately, I do not believe they anticipated the use of cross proffesion abilites on different weapons. Try using an Advanced Sniper Shot with a Rocket launcher to see how unbalancing the result can be.

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Slysix wrote:

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Zaax wrote:

there IS a penalty, its called using SP. thats why there are only 250 SP in the game.... if i spent SP in getting RM, why should i NOT be able to use any other ranged special?? thats the main point of the CU!! you want to nerf the CU! if i get pistolerr 0003 for the stopping shot, (that i have atm, unless i drop it for the charge shot - i am still undecided what i like btr, charge or stopping) then i spent presious points to GET it...

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By no means am I saying that you should not be able to use any other ranged special. However you must use it with the appropriate weapon. If you want to use stopping shot, you should use it with a pistol. To use it with a rifle should incur penalties.

One of the purposes of the CURB is to bring balance to combat. Pistoleer, Carbineer and Rifleman are balanced professions when the specials learned with them are used with the weapons they were mean to be used with. Unfortunately, I do not believe they anticipated the use of cross proffesion abilites on different weapons. Try using an Advanced Sniper Shot with a Rocket launcher to see how unbalancing the result can be.

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The only people who have a problem with the cross use of specials are pistol weilders. I have read the Melee boards and it aint a bigissue with them, from what I have seen.

So apparently, pistols can't cut it in combat. So should we drag down the most inivative aspect of the CU? Or should we boost pistols?

I must say I agree 100% on this.
I hate beeing a crybaby, but I want to say what I feel.

The ability to use cross class skills/weapons is a great idea, but right now its actually ruining the fun of PvP.
At least in big battles/small wars.
Im getting pretty tired of beeing rooted and knocked down at 70-80 meters away, then to get a nice rain of shots after me....and rooted/knocked down again.
Yes, its a good (but cheap and lousy) tactic in PvP....but when its happening in every battle and so to say all the time we are fighting, its getting extremely annoying.

Right now the wars havent any room for melee or pistoleers, heck...even carbineers are having a really tough time.
Everyone is running around whipping out a rifle and starts using the root and knock down.
The PvP nowadays is mostly based on rifle ranged root/knock down power play.

The skill points a master rifleman uses to get some good root attacks from pistoleer forexample, just isnt enough penalty.
As it says in the original post, give cross class skills a heavy cool down timer.

You know, what might make this a better way of combat is give each profession a certain amount of defense versus their own specials. Spread the defenses through the trees and make them jump up at master level. That way dabblers wont get as good defenses versus the shots they might be pulling from the profession they are dabbling in. That way when a rifleman tries to use a root or a chargeshot kd on pistoleer or carbineer it wont work to the same effectiveness. Maybe the effect has a shorter duration for those who are the profession or it has only X chance to hit because of X defense they gain. It would make the professions a little more stand alone without hampering the ability of the other professions to have some of the same shots and skills.

Im not surprised at all that you posted something crap like that, GarronDarkweaver.

The problem with you imps (at least those who do PvP) is that most of you cant do squat without being "uber".
You cant enter wars/PvP base attacks without utilizing the "perfect" PvP template and base your strategy on exploits.
Rebs arent all clean, but alot cleaner than the imps on Farstar...I know because Ive been imp myself a long time ago.

But enough of this and back to the original topic.

Im in for a penalty if you shall use cross class skills.
Dont remove the use of cross class skills, just give it a penalty.
That way you can use all the skills you want with so to say every weapon, but with a penalty.

But, I have said what I wanted to say in my previous post....so I'll skip out of this thread.

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Slysix wrote:
Ok I've said this many times before on different post but I do not think I proposed a workable solution to the problem.

Problem: Players have access to use abilites on weapons that those abilities have not been designed for.
Example: Using a Knockdown or Root shot with a rifle.

Solution: Introduce a Profession specialty(ies) to all abilites and weapons. If one of the specialties of the ability does not match at lease one the specialties of the weapon a penalty is applied.
Possible Penalties:
A Cool Down timer multiplier.
Movement penalties.
Daze effect.(the shooter tries to sniper shot with a rocket launcher...temporarily blinded by backwash....)
Increased Action/Mind Cost.

Advantages:
Highly adjustable/tweakable.
Does not nerf any profession.

Disadvantages:
Might be difficult to implement intially.

Comments welcome.

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works for me. But I have to read all the comments in this thread yet before that is my final word. There most definitely does need to be some sort of profession bonus for using in class specials and weapons.