CUEmu - Thread Posts

gloga

Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:41 pm

I may just be unobservent or what ever u want to call it but everytime i see professions changed it almost always is for the worse. If i remember correctly Pike used to be a very strong profession, then it was nerfed and couldn't beat a novice tk without a dot pike. This is going to be for the worse and all of you who are saying "o yay Rifleman isn't going to be the FOTM any more" from what i can tell we are going to be almost worthless in fighting. Slow speed and 3 second wait to change weapons when we don't run at full speed with a rifle out. IMO they will make rifleman almost unplayable. I believe that it would bearrogent to think that Rifles being slower meens that we will get more dmg. When they hightened our ham costs in the last patch or when ever they did it did they give us more dmg? more speed? no. I may be arrogent but i don't see that us becomeing not a FOTM is worth loseing our combat abilities completly.

Sotaudi

Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:47 pm

#15

Some people have dismissed this thread as premature or unwarranted because no one knows what will happen in the revamp. I have to disagree. I think this needs to be discussed, and I do not say that simply to defend my son (Gloga is my son in RL), but because we do know several things that have been said as directions in the revamp. And many of us, myself included, find the direction they seem to be going to be highly disturbing.

So the real question is, do we tell ourselves that everyone will be affected by the revamp and we should just wait and see, or do we look at what we know:

1. They have said that they believe we should be long-range snipers.

2. Theyhave said that theyare throwing out the speed formulas and they have specifically stated that slow weapons will fire slow even in the hands of a Master.

3. They have indicated that they are going to make us run slower while holding a rifle, they are going to make it take longer to switch away from that rifle, and they are going to make it so that it takes longer to change into or out of armor.

4. They alsohave stated that a Rifleman will be most powerful if he takes the time to setup (i.e., go prone and get into cover).

5. They are going to make mind healable.

However, as has been discussed here ad nauseum, we will never be long range snipers because there is no such thing as long range in this game. Because of that and because mind will be healeable, slow = dead no matter now nice the damage because they will never give us damage to equal what it would take to kill someone before they get to us. We also know that, in PvP, prone = dead, which is why nobody regularly and intentionally goes prone. So we will not be able to be at our most powerful most of the time. And not only will we not have weapon speed nor will we be able to target an unhealable pool to kill them before they get to us, but this means we have to be mobile to survive, meanig prone is still not an option. But we are already supposed to be the least accurate while moving, and they are making it so when we do run, we will be unable to get away if we hold our weapon. And even if we do run, it will take longer to put on armor (if we were unarmored) and longer to switch to a different weapon, one which will probably have to be a non-rifle weapon just to survive. This all sounds to me like a return to the days when Durnis of Death were high-end mobs to a Rifleman. Okay, that is an exaggeration, but between all of that and the fact that they are trying to turn this game into Jedi wars (including giving force sensitive, non-Jedi bonuses to speed and the like), I really do not have any hope left.

So, while I will wait for the balance before I decide what I will do, it is not premature to look at what they have said they intend to do, cross-reference that with our own experiences and decide that there is no foreseeable way that they will be able to balance the profession if they continue to go down that path, a path which appears to be to the dark-side for our profession.

And if all we do is say to ourselves, "Trust in the Force...err...Combat Rebalance. All will be well,"they will go down that path, and forever it will dominate our future. Therefore, I have to agree with my son here. We need to let them know that many of us, even long term riflemen, will leave the profession if they do what they seem to be proposing. They also need to know that there are those, like me, who will leave the game if it comes to leaving the profession because we have no interest in becoming pistoleers or carbineers or BHs, nor do we want to take the ridiculous path of going all melee in a world that is supposed to be dominated by Laser-weapons. And many of us do not want to become Jedi, nor do we wish to be unable to compete with those who are willing to grind out a limited force sensitive slot. This is supposed to be a time when there was only one active Jedi, and he was not even fully trained yet. It is not supposed to be Knights of the Old Republic.

No, this thread is not premature. It is necessary if we want to makes sure that there is balance, not just nerfing.

Message Edited by Sotaudi on 06-15-2004 03:52 PM

Sotaudi Crestlighter
Master Rifleman / Master Combat Medic
"The Physician's Pain Reference"

Former Professions
Master Doctor | Master Swordsman | Master Brawler
Master Scout | Ranger

BlasterForHire

Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:43 am

#16

SyluneUK wrote:
Everything is going to get 'nerfed'. Armour is going to be reduced. Buffs are going to re reduced.

We're too powerful. Anyone can solo 90% of the mobs in the game with pretty much any master combat proffesion without even getting scratched.

Rifle is worse than most I don't even need armour or buffs to solo 90% of Mobs (Not risk free!)

I'm not saying the balance will be good or bad untill I see it. But the Dev's want us to group to kill stuff not solo everything.

Maybe it'll add a new dimension to PvP and I'll no longer live in fear of an approaching naked wookie with a stun baton. Maybe it'll kill the game 'cos I can no longer do any of the things I enjoy without finding a posse of Elite fighters to help me (And share my Loot)

Maybe I wont care 'cos I'll be flying my X-Wing.

Wait and see?

sums it up pretty much perfectly in my mind.

McFlyGuy

Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:05 am

#17

lol... These newcomer fotm people whine too damn much. If you were here at the beginning of the game you would have seen it was much worse and we stuck to our profession. If you wanna leave we'll be glad to kick ya out..

_/\__/\_Phlat-Line______

N00b-E With a Year of Experience!

Protteus

Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:31 am

#18

The only thing that really gets to me is the (Not confirmed just like everything else in this thread), we will have the same DPS, but we will run slower because we are lugging around a big rifle. Sure it makes sense to be slower, so give us some more damn damage to compensate.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

-=Protteus Zarkof=-

Jedi Knizight

"No Mercy for the Weak"

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

>

Sotaudi

Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:31 am

#19

McFlyGuy wrote:

lol... These newcomer fotm people whine too damn much. If you were here at the beginning of the game you would have seen it was much worse and we stuck to our profession. If you wanna leave we'll be glad to kick ya out..

Or maybe it is that those of us who have been playing rifle from the beginning just do not want to go back to dying to Durnis. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a FOTM.

Sotaudi Crestlighter
Master Rifleman / Master Combat Medic
"The Physician's Pain Reference"

Former Professions
Master Doctor | Master Swordsman | Master Brawler
Master Scout | Ranger

McFlyGuy

Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:13 am

#20

o now the devs wouldnt do that now would they.... seriously... /gasp

_/\__/\_Phlat-Line______

N00b-E With a Year of Experience!

PyscoJuggalo

Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:47 am

#21

McFlyGuy wrote:

o now the devs wouldnt do that now would they.... seriously... /gasp

Look at CH

I am the Mad Rifleman, Writer of the Riflenomican. I understand the secrets of the Dark Ancient Developer ones and their Evil. (Maniacal Laughter) He he he he he, Ha ha ha ha ha, Aha ha ha ha!
CM's are like nukes. You have them just incase you need them, but as soon as you start using yours the other guys start using theirs and everything goes to hell-PyschoticChipmunk -The First line of the Riflenomican.

atat9619

Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:13 am

#22

Rifleman/CM template is gonna end this way and change to carbineer or pistoleer CM

^4Battlefield SF>SWG

Seraph00X

Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:27 am

#23

I'm with the "wait and see" people.

reasoning: this morning before work I was hunting ravenous tortons, and I am a 1/1/0/0 rifleman, master ranger. The rav. tortons conned red to me, but by planting myself /prone /takecover /maskscent and then spam /concealshot1 I dropped it without it even knowing I was there. There was almost no risk, I took absolutely no damage, and got almost 4k rifle xp out of it. While I'm not complaining about it (in fact it was prett damn cool), I have to agree that we are pretty powerful, even at my lowly 1/1/0/0 skill.

conclusion: while I don't want anyone nerfed (especially riflemen), some things definitely need to be readjusted a little.

cheers-
Serje Misre, Master Ranger, Kauri
Pas Ok'Lya, master schleper, Test Center

"Even though the Old Republic didn't work, I'd rather have a government run by beuraucrats than run by a dictator willing to destroy an entire planet in order to flush out a handful of dissidents."

Zeritul

Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:09 am

#24

Everybody knows the FotM people will leave if rifleman gets any kind of penalty at all, fine nobody will care if the FotM people leave. The rifleman forums used to be a great place with great people to chat with, nowadays its not, I don't even check here that much anymore.

Those of us who have been here since the beginning knew this was coming(check some of the posts from Nov-Jan), it's not a surprise. I hope they don't nerf rifleman, but I do hope that pistols and carbines are just as good as rifles after the balance, then alot of the FotM can go to whatever professions they want and the riflemen that stay won't have a **edit**ty profession.

There is no sense complaining, just let it ride out and see what happens. If you are here as a FotM, don't worry there will always be a new flavor for you somewhere.

PyscoJuggalo

Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:45 am

#25

Zeritul wrote:

Everybody knows the FotM people will leave if rifleman gets any kind of penalty at all, fine nobody will care if the FotM people leave. The rifleman forums used to be a great place with great people to chat with, nowadays its not, I don't even check here that much anymore.

Those of us who have been here since the beginning knew this was coming(check some of the posts from Nov-Jan), it's not a surprise. I hope they don't nerf rifleman, but I do hope that pistols and carbines are just as good as rifles after the balance, then alot of the FotM can go to whatever professions they want and the riflemen that stay won't have a **edit**ty profession.

There is no sense complaining, just let it ride out and see what happens. If you are here as a FotM, don't worry there will always be a new flavor for you somewhere.

/agree

But I don't want to end up like CH...... I mean sure it's cool training creature and all, but they really don't have a strong role in the group dynamic currently. TKA's, Fencers, Swordmen, and anyone with Buffs/Armor is a better Tank/Meatsheild.

I want Rifleman after this nerf/balance/whatever to have a viable role in combat.

I am the Mad Rifleman, Writer of the Riflenomican. I understand the secrets of the Dark Ancient Developer ones and their Evil. (Maniacal Laughter) He he he he he, Ha ha ha ha ha, Aha ha ha ha!
CM's are like nukes. You have them just incase you need them, but as soon as you start using yours the other guys start using theirs and everything goes to hell-PyschoticChipmunk -The First line of the Riflenomican.

Veustuh

Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:47 am

#26

Seraph00X wrote:
I'm with the "wait and see" people.

reasoning: this morning before work I was hunting ravenous tortons, and I am a 1/1/0/0 rifleman, master ranger. The rav. tortons conned red to me, but by planting myself /prone /takecover /maskscent and then spam /concealshot1 I dropped it without it even knowing I was there. There was almost no risk, I took absolutely no damage, and got almost 4k rifle xp out of it. While I'm not complaining about it (in fact it was prett damn cool), I have to agree that we are pretty powerful, even at my lowly 1/1/0/0 skill.

conclusion: while I don't want anyone nerfed (especially riflemen), some things definitely need to be readjusted a little.

Conceal shot and take cover is not the solution to our worries. This will work on low and mid level creatures and npc but is not viable with high end mobs (try conceal in the DW Bunker), running with groups and especially in PvP. The real problem with the proposed nerfs is that they're targeting the rifleman and not one of the biggest reasons for the current FOTM and imbalance between professions.

In the early day’s rifleman were few and far between. Many players took to pistols as they were the best weapon to fight with for their speed, accuracy and damage were far better than any rifle available. Shortly after release and when the laser rifles and T21s became available we saw a small increase in numbers though this was kept in check by the 2.5x melee damage modifier and most importantly there were no buffs.

Rifleman of the old school era did not depend on 2k+ buffs, advanced armor or chef food to allow us to endless spam specials. Also, in our time conceal shot didn't work and mobs would warp on top of us with little to no warning that it was going to happen. Up through December of 2003 buffs and armor had yet to gain popularity among players and especially among PvPers as the costs for armor vs. specials weren't worth the trouble. Add to this before January there was no such thing as defense templating or stacking. It was not an uncommon sight to find rifleman running in regular clothes and high on muon.

The beginning of the combat balance rolled out in January which brought about the changes that have forever tainted this game. With the first of 5 patches for combat, buffs began to work and at the same time armorsmiths had found ways to make 70% resist composite armor. Also with the update brought about the use of damage mitigation, defense templating/stacking and the spreading of the damage potential gap between classes. Melee could now effectively template and with great buffs and armor would become one of the more powerful classes in the galaxy. Add to this rifleman were now able to wear full composite suits and spam specials with little to no recourse.

Six months later and many patch notes tossed around there is a proposal that's been dropped on us that says "The game is broke, you're too powerful so you must be the problem." The developers will not admit that 2k+ secondary buffs with 90% resist armor killed the game. The developers will not admit that programming glitches in their code allowed for higher minimum than maximum damage bones that allowed melee weapons to reach well into 900 DPS from a stun baton in PvP. The developers will not admit that the Geonosian venom before the fix lead to the great fluctuation of CMs and their attacks that did well into 1k of damage in seconds. The developers will not admit that composite armor for all its resists would have one damage type as its weakest point which would become the favorite damage type to use. The developers will not admit that no one player should be able to dabble defenses enough to lay waste to 10 buffed combat elite players.

So from all of this players have come accustom to being mini krayts and able to being able to solo almost all content in game. When they are beat by somebody better the outcry comes and yells for nerfs reign supreme on the forums until the devs decide that one class must be to blame for their mistakes.

Veustuh - Rifleman/Carbineer
Geno - Old School MD/MCM
Hunter'a - Dark Force Wielder
Kardo - Smuggler Extrodinare - Retired

"Stop trolling
your post has no merit and is just plain trolling" Garva

Rifleman Archive

Thread: Bump this up if u will quit if rifle is as weak as it seems it will be after the revamp