Rifleman Archive
Thread: Isn't it fun having 80% of our skills useless in PvP
Protteus wrote:
nofxslaugt wrote:
As an ex BH and current rifleman, you are full of crap. If you think this is bad, try bounty hunter and have 100% of your specials be worthless.
Yep because Dizzy/KD/Flame DOT in 1 shot is so worthless right?
The only specials you could possibly be referring to are FireKD, which works 1/8 times ASSUMING you hit the target (anywhere from 1/2 to 1/25 of the time), underhand shot which no longer KDs targets in PVP, or a non-bh special commonly used by BHs such as chargeshot from the carbineer line. Even chargeshot was given a 20 second timer recently.
fletcherreed wrote:
You're an idiot SatansCircus but you are right.
How exactly am I an idiot. Am I any more of an idiot then thepeople who think a posture up attack is useful, or possibly all the people who think they can discredit what I say by pointing to another profession, or what about people who think that being able to stun someone makes us stand out as a class when most combat professions have stun moves of their own, orpeople who think we should stick to large groups even though we like to call ourselves snipers.
You people are in denial that the entire rifleman profession is bogus (as are other professions) I just felt like pointing out a few things since everyday someone gets headshot one too many times and comes crying nerf and all I wanted to do was point out that rifleman is not all it's cracked up to be. Oh yeah and most headshots hurt us just as much as the person we are shooting (even with buffs).
SatansCircus wrote:
fletcherreed wrote:
You're an idiot SatansCircus but you are right.
How exactly am I an idiot. Am I any more of an idiot then thepeople who think a posture up attack is useful, or possibly all the people who think they can discredit what I say by pointing to another profession, or what about people who think that being able to stun someone makes us stand out as a class when most combat professions have stun moves of their own, orpeople who think we should stick to large groups even though we like to call ourselves snipers.
You people are in denial that the entire rifleman profession is bogus (as are other professions) I just felt like pointing out a few things since everyday someone gets headshot one too many times and comes crying nerf and all I wanted to do was point out that rifleman is not all it's cracked up to be. Oh yeah and most headshots hurt us just as much as the person we are shooting (even with buffs).
Wow, you really are an idiot. If you can't negate HAM mind costs with brandy and canape, you really do need to pick another profession. I can spam HS3 (our highest HAM cost shot, since I'm sure you don't know) all day even in my PvP armor with 990 mind costs with brandy and canape. Other people may have stun attacks, but do they have guns that can reach 160+ accuracy from just the gun? An E11 rifle made right and a range mod powerup can easily hit 160. So while others are missing the template stackers with thier stuns, ours can hit. AND its an AE attack, so it can hit large groups. As for the sniper comment, I don't really see us as snipers. We're the footsoldiers and grunts of the SW universe. We run and gun and lay down large area damage. CAN we snipe? Sure, but thats not really our main purpose.
Lets break down our skills now
Anything1 - Useless, this includes Strafe1, flushing1, startle1, flurry1, MS1 and HS1. So that's6 useless shots.
Conceal Shot - I hear in PvP this will let you fire on a target without them auto returning fire, I need to see this for myself tho, if it is then this would be a great sniper skill, esp if it doesn't even have them auto-target you. Right now I'll catagorize this as only useful in PvE, that's 1 PvE only and6 useless.
Startle2 and supprise shot - startle does same as flushing2 only doesn't stun, who knows what supprise does. 1 PvE only8 useless.
Headshot2, Headshot3, and Strafe2 - Some people prefer HS2 to HS3 because of HAM costs. Whatever, these 3 are the mainstay of all riflemen. 3 all purpose, 1 PvE, 8 useless.
Flushing2 and Flurry2 - Here we disagree, you say useless, I say very useful, and always lead off with these two attacks. I'm calling these good for PvP. Thats 3 general purpose, 2 PvP, 1 PvE,8 useless.
Mindshot 2 - still can be useful if you can get a good bleed off. Useful for wounding the targets secondaries. I still use this far less than anything else so I'll classify this as useless. Thats 3 GP, 2 PvP, 1 PvE, 9 useless
Snipershot - Riflemen love it, everybody else hates it. 3 GP 3 PvP 1 PvE 3 useless.
Now lets be reasonable. The 1 versions of shots are granted to lower level classmembers to assist in thier grinding. I do not believe it would be reasonable for us to expect the low level shots to ever stand out against thier higher level counterparts. So I'm dropping the6 useless 1's from the picture. Thats 3 GP,3 PvP, 1 PvE,3 useless for a total of10 total shots we should expect to be useful at master. So I see only 40% of our shots being useless in PvP, with 30% being just plain useless. Even if you want to discredit flushing 2, flurry 2, and HS2 (which would be dropped with the 1's to be fair) thats still only 67% of our shots being useless.
SatansCircus wrote:
Oh yeah and most headshots hurt us just as much as the person we are shooting (even with buffs).
Message Edited by CorralTaak on 03-22-2004 01:54 AM
scary huh?
a trando should not be allowed to have that much mind =) /sarcasmoff
but i dont care that half (or more) of our stuff is useless, but i still rule in PVP
SatansCircus wrote:
No one EVER goes prone or kneels during combat, they all run in circles so all our posture change moves are useless. State effects are a joke, even dizzy is useless without a posture down attack. PvP battles are over so fast crap like stun is useless. Our bleed move must be nothing more then a scratch because it doesn't do crap for damage. Since there is no real sniping the entire counter-sniping tree is bogus. Concealment is useless since anyone can just tab to you and blow you away through terrain. So what are we left with? oh yeah a head shot that doesn't land on anyone with a ranged defense over 50 and strafeshot which is neutralized by ranged damage mitigation and armor. Fun stuff huh.
Message Edited by SatansCircus on 03-21-2004 03:38 AM
I dont know man, I am kinda getting that when you are talkin pvp what you are really saying is pvp against melee players. I say this cause you think the posture up attacks are useless. Against any ranged combat profession these are sickly lethal but not so good against melee. Big melee damage comes directly from spaming special attacks and they mostly draw mind damage from them. Rifleman do wwwayyy more damage without specials than do melee. Headshots and mindshots are going to cripple their ability to use their kd specials and damage specials plus take away their use of stimpacks. Not too many melee guys wear armor because they need their ham for specials so they will be buffed. However with the damage that a rifleman can do, you would pretty much cut through that pretty quickly as well. As far as pve goes, I dont think there is any arguement about how good riflemen are!
If you work in a group during PVP... its best not to choose the outright damage roll if you want to live through the ordeal.
Just the otherday i tookout a TKM and a BH with flurry/flushing.... had em both dizzy and stunned with the cone shots and when they got close i dropped both of em with my H.sword AOE3 (posture down).... Then watched em gimpout for a bit... aplied my mind bleads and a few headshots but made sure they were both dizzy and stuned the whole time.... then killed one with my Hammer in 1 headhit.... then the other.
If you play your cards right... (even with 2 classes with 80% usless moves) you can win against people who expect the same ol "he's got a riffle so hes just going to try and shoot me in the head" TACTICS TACTICS TACTICS... get some... and wait till the combat revamp.
Corrodiate wrote:
i think he's talking about spray* shot, the MBH carbine skill
Message Edited by Corrodiate on 03-21-2004 07:49 PM
nofxslaugt wrote:
As an ex BH and current rifleman, you are full of crap. If you think this is bad, try bounty hunter and have 100% of your specials be worthless.
huh u mean pistoleer? bh has many attacks.....
nofxslaugt wrote:
Protteus wrote:
nofxslaugt wrote:
As an ex BH and current rifleman, you are full of crap. If you think this is bad, try bounty hunter and have 100% of your specials be worthless.
Yep because Dizzy/KD/Flame DOT in 1 shot is so worthless right?
The only specials you could possibly be referring to are FireKD, which works 1/8 times ASSUMING you hit the target (anywhere from 1/2 to 1/25 of the time), underhand shot which no longer KDs targets in PVP, or a non-bh special commonly used by BHs such as chargeshot from the carbineer line. Even chargeshot was given a 20 second timer recently.
Yep fire KD is the one, and yes it sticks more than that. Especially if you invest in Skill Tapes like Rifleman to be decently accurate up close. A cheaper and imo better template approach is to go Master Carbine/BH Carbs 4. The new uber support class, individual takedown(Fire KD), and Crowd control(Area Dizzy/KD).