Rifleman Archive
Thread: Ok, ok, ok fine.
Oasa wrote:
So..... my post got closed, and locked.
So..... my post wasn't contructive.
Let me see if I can make it nicer.
I was recently ravaged by a rifleman, and was considering how to beat them. There, at the moment are not very many possibilities. I do the food, buff, etc thing, and still, the jawa ion rifle comes through, everytime. No matter the range, if they are armored, or buffed. They eat food/drink and can easily pop off many shots, without considerable drain to their mind, as they can stand very far back, and if needed kite. So I was wondering, if you, the riflemen, can think of a way to beat... yourselves (if you weren't riflemen). The only way I can see is for you to have a your own army of them trailing you. I really don't see a DOWNSIDE to being a rifleman, other than the fact the grind to become one is slow, stupid, and borish. You have excellent damage, several damage types, good defense mods, and have long range. The only reason I'm not one, is that I really don't like ranged weapons, so I was wondering if you could think of anyway to beat yourselves. I am a Master Fencer/Master TKA/Master Brawler/Novice Medic
I use COB, and I am still hit 90% of the time. I know its not broken, because I tanked the Ackley for my group in the Geo caves. So any suggestions? I don't see many weaknesses.
Thx
The problem here is not Rifleman nor the profession you are playing The problem is the decisions you are making and the fact that you want the game mechanics to adapt to your decisions rather than you having to adapt to the game mechanics.
You have chosen to do a profession mix that has a max range of 20m, and even then, only two attacks that have even that range. Fine. If that is the skill set you want to have, there is nothing wrong with it, until you decide to attack someone who has 3 times your range and can run just as fast as you can. You have chosen to have a weakness against ranged attacks. You cannot expect the game to adapt to that choice and allow you to fight well at 64m. If you want to fight at ranges greater than 20m, then choose a ranged profession, or accept that starting battles thatare beyond your max range are probably suicide.
That means that, rather than running 44m through a hail of whithering fire to get into range, sometimes you are better off running 3m the other direction out of the range of your attacker where neither of you can hit the other. Now, move away and around and find an approach that keeps a broken line of sight (buildings or blockingterrain features) until you can get within your optimal range and his weakest.
Yes, 64m across an open field is a serious advantage for a rifleman. On the other hand, deep in side a base where options to run as well as ranges are limited, you have a distinct advantage. Accept that this is the choice you made.
Once you get within range, use your other advantages. Use state changes to dizzy, blind, or stun your opponent. Use posture changes to prevent him from running. If you KD him while he is dizzy, his DPS drops to 0 and damage done to him is doubled until he can get up. All the while, you have to-hit bonus against him while you are in range. Yes, Rifleman has high ranged defenses, and even+40 melee defense. On the other hand, the melee defense only mitigates some of the now fixed melee to-hit bonus, so now if you are in range, you are almost guaranteed to hit a rifleman. And Rifleman has some of the lowest defense to state changes in the game. So you have a good chance of sticking all of the state change attacks you have.
The bottom line is that, as a Rifleman, Ilike the strength of this profession, so I acceptthe fact that melee characters have a close range advantage. Thus,I avoid letting people get within melee range on me. But alsorecognizing this weakness, I chose to go with Master Swordsman/Master Brawler to supplement my skills to deal with my short range weakensses. Thus, my motto is, "Coherent light from a distance or the 'Hammer of Death' up close: your choice." You chose a different path, and that is your choice. But live with the fact that range is your greatest weakness, and you have chosen to not supplement your skill set with a ranged profession to overcome that weakness. Use your strengths, avoid your weaknesses, and accept that not all battles can be won no matter what your build. Sometimes, disengaging and coming at it a different way is your only option.
Message Edited by Sotaudi on 03-26-2004 05:27 PM
wow you just said u can beat a normal rifleman by putting him on his butt.
now with buffs, this is not the prob with the class but with the buffs and armor thats going around.
A rifleman without buffs and good armor isnt that hard to beat (ive been killed seveal times like this?)
If they tone down buffs and armor then the other classes wouldnt **edit** so much about pvp. 90% is pretty rediculous.
I DO know how to PvP. I use tactics, I improvise, but when I'm against a TKM, and a BH, fully armored, AND doing well against them its great. I would probably win. But I was doing something just like that a few days ago, and low and behold, an unbuffed, un-ANYTHING'd rifleman with a jawa that wasn't even GOOD (I did a few tests with a few riflemen friends) took me down in less than 10 seconds. 64m away... didn't see it coming. I know 10 seconds seems like a lot NOW, but witha TKM and BH on you, and while in PvP, its nothing. You're panicing and fumbling and trying to burst, COB, change armor, pop food etc.
I know not to stay in the open, and I try my very hardest not to. I am in Theed (for the only reason that there are no imps anywhere else really, except bestine, but there are 20+ against my 3-5) and when my teammate is being attacked, I'm not going to just stand there, or run away. Problem is you have such range.. theres so many of you.... and any jawa is good enough to take me down with some HS3.... I burst, you burst.... I run out of ur 64m range, you burst, I burst, you're in range now. It's hopeless. I want to thank those of you who gave me good advice, and actually gave me reasonable answers. Those of you who flamed, and flamed badly, I laugh with great amusement at you. You're silly, and need to use a dictionary. Or spell check? Do they have that? They should add it. Whoever it was who wrote something about riflemen killing you slowly... you.... well... you might want to try buying weapons, instead of using the ones looted off meatlumps. AT LEAST use the bazaar. I mean, my god, what are you using to kill people with? A REALLY LONG, POINTY STICK?
Heh, no kidding...
/wink /wink /nudge /nuge
/say no more /say no more
Zëënk R¤düxŠ
Gaiden133 wrote:
There are many ways to beat us, But I really don't like to say of them as well, it's not good to spread ideas on how to bring your class down. I can go down to a certain class in 2-3 hits, just to let you know, and I would be on muon, 2 BE Brandies, Mind buff, Musician buff, full doc buffs, the works. It doesn't take someone very long to know how to beat another class, just basically takes experience and well in my opponent's case, a very nice weapon.
Heh, no kidding...
/wink /wink /nudge /nuge
/say no more /say no more
#2 you need to learn to overcome #1
Personally I am a CH/Rifleman/pistoleer.
CH=useless for PvP
I finsihed up rifleman for PvP (was just 2/0/0/0)
found most meele players could take me out when they got close
Took back Pistoleer for the KD.
Slap meele Player down, get distance, go back to rifle.
See it's called adapt/improvise/overcome
Oh ya 1 more thing, you are all brawler classes right? seems to me their wouldn't be much ranged defense there, maybe a little character balanceing in in order.
Message Edited by taloncard on 03-26-2004 12:43 AM
Wait forgot your the pure meleer, umm you wonder why people who stand 50m away from you can beat you who needs to be 20m or closer.
Message Edited by PyscoJuggalo on 03-26-2004 01:55 AM
As many people have stated, Riflemen have next to no state defense. Dizzy or KD, we'll go down. We get +20 dizzy, no KD defense, I think. You stun us, or DPS = 50%. Intimidate ain't that big a deal, as our secondary defenses don't seem to be working.
The key to beating a rifler is KD em. Plain and simple.
Also, a Rifler in melee range is a dead rifler. A melee at rifle range is a dead Meleer. So simple, but everyone whines. If I get close to a Melee class, be it TKM, Fencer, whatever, I'm dead. If I keep them at range, I'm gonna win.
PyscoJuggalo wrote:
Wait forgot your the pure meleer, umm you wonder why people who stand 50m away from you can beat you who needs to be 20m or closer.
and btw... i have almost the cap of ranged D, but you're right, i do need more... considering dropping some TKM.. we'll seeMessage Edited by Oasa on 03-26-2004 04:28 PM
MoridinTheSick wrote:
Lets see..
how about kd/dizzy or poison them
thats what kills everyone else and it works on us, just prey they are not a rifleman doctor like me
Heh, the only time a CM beat me was when it was too laggy to cure poison. Other than that, I'm about 6 or 7-0, most coming during raids. Must suck:
You poison Target,
Poison goes away.
Headshot2, Headshot2, Headshot2, Sniper Shot.