Rifleman Archive

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tommotX wrote:
bump...i planned on krayting a jawa

but now im having second thoughts...can somebody give a reason why the DXR is better in PvP?

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1) huge accuracy so it helps get past defence stacker defenses (jawa sucks)

2) ignores personal shield generators as they are all vulnerable to acid

3) AP2

4) better damage range (less mitigation

5) most pvp'rs have 40%+ composite vs stun and 60% + stun PSG's... so little stun damage does nothing now

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Ackehece wrote:

1) huge accuracy so it helps get past defence stacker defenses (jawa sucks)

True enough

2) ignores personal shield generators as they are all vulnerable to acid

Also true, but people make too big a deal out of PSGs. They blow up in seconds in a large battle, so after the initial engagement, I'd say most people in combat are likely to be PSG-less.

3) AP2

This works??? I was under the impression that AP2 did not provide a bonus, based on threads in this forum and the Swordsman forum. Does anyone have any test data that shows this one way or the other?

4) better damage range (less mitigation)

Not much in it, I don't think. Not in-game though, so I may be in for a nasty surprise when I check

5) most pvp'rs have 40%+ composite vs stun and 60% + stun PSG's... so little stun damage does nothing now

60% stun PSGs!?!?!?! Either I'm missing out, or that's a typo. I've not seen higher than 48% base (inc stun) PSGs.

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I think the argument that many people put forward against Jawas, is that 'everyone has 40% stun these days'. That, in my experience, depends very much on what sort of PvP you're taking part in. In some cases, the Dxr6b is undoubtedly the right choice, in other cases, I vote for the Jawa.

An organised guild war between two elite PvP guilds?They'll have some decent stun protection, not necessarily 40%. Expect 40%+ resists in the helmet though, which makes the Jawa struggle in one-on-one scenarios where headshot is your primary attack.

An arranged duel between high-level PvPers? Yep, they'll be wearing it if they think you'll be using stun dmg. Unless they don't know your template, Jawa is likely to struggle here.

A large-scale GCW encounter, such as a base raid?IMO, bring out the Jawa. Most of the people there will be relatively new/poor players, and frankly, they will not have high level equipment. Yes, there will be lots of people there who DO have that equipment, but that doesn't mean everyone does. In scenarios like that, the expert players are hard to kill in any case, since they know when to retreat behind the lines to get patched up. Stun will still tear through rookies in a way that acid damage is never going to. In a lot of cases, people will be wearing stun helmets, with the rest of the suit having no stun protection. That's cool, since most of the time you'll be firing Flushing Shot 2 and Flurry Shot 2 to stick states on groups of people. A Krayted Jawa is going to give them a nasty surprise, and with battle-lag, they could be incapped before they know it. Headshot only comes out to kill off the wounded and infirm

In summary, I'd say you need to consider your normal 'target audience'. If it's high-level players, then I'd agree with the vote for the Dxr6b. But, I do think there's been something of a knee-jerk reactionto stun armour on this board, and all of a sudden it's the cool thing to say Jawas are useless. In reality, they will always be useful, they just aren't the 'no-brainer' that they used to be.

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rgrocott wrote:

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Ackehece wrote:

1) huge accuracy so it helps get past defence stacker defenses (jawa sucks)

True enough

2) ignores personal shield generators as they are all vulnerable to acid

Also true, but people make too big a deal out of PSGs. They blow up in seconds in a large battle, so after the initial engagement, I'd say most people in combat are likely to be PSG-less.

3) AP2

This works??? I was under the impression that AP2 did not provide a bonus, based on threads in this forum and the Swordsman forum. Does anyone have any test data that shows this one way or the other?

4) better damage range (less mitigation)

Not much in it, I don't think. Not in-game though, so I may be in for a nasty surprise when I check

5) most pvp'rs have 40%+ composite vs stun and 60% + stun PSG's... so little stun damage does nothing now

60% stun PSGs!?!?!?! Either I'm missing out, or that's a typo. I've not seen higher than 48% base (inc stun) PSGs.

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I think the argument that many people put forward against Jawas, is that 'everyone has 40% stun these days'. That, in my experience, depends very much on what sort of PvP you're taking part in. In some cases, the Dxr6b is undoubtedly the right choice, in other cases, I vote for the Jawa.

An organised guild war between two elite PvP guilds?They'll have some decent stun protection, not necessarily 40%. Expect 40%+ resists in the helmet though, which makes the Jawa struggle in one-on-one scenarios where headshot is your primary attack.

An arranged duel between high-level PvPers? Yep, they'll be wearing it if they think you'll be using stun dmg. Unless they don't know your template, Jawa is likely to struggle here.

A large-scale GCW encounter, such as a base raid?IMO, bring out the Jawa. Most of the people there will be relatively new/poor players, and frankly, they will not have high level equipment. Yes, there will be lots of people there who DO have that equipment, but that doesn't mean everyone does. In scenarios like that, the expert players are hard to kill in any case, since they know when to retreat behind the lines to get patched up. Stun will still tear through rookies in a way that acid damage is never going to. In a lot of cases, people will be wearing stun helmets, with the rest of the suit having no stun protection. That's cool, since most of the time you'll be firing Flushing Shot 2 and Flurry Shot 2 to stick states on groups of people. A Krayted Jawa is going to give them a nasty surprise, and with battle-lag, they could be incapped before they know it. Headshot only comes out to kill off the wounded and infirm

In summary, I'd say you need to consider your normal 'target audience'. If it's high-level players, then I'd agree with the vote for the Dxr6b. But, I do think there's been something of a knee-jerk reactionto stun armour on this board, and all of a sudden it's the cool thing to say Jawas are useless. In reality, they will always be useful, they just aren't the 'no-brainer' that they used to be.

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I think the argument that many people put forward against Jawas, is that 'everyone has 40% stun these days'. That, in my experience, depends very much on what sort of PvP you're taking part in. In some cases, the Dxr6b is undoubtedly the right choice, in other cases, I vote for the Jawa.

I would say that depends more on the server. On Eclipse you will not find anyone who pvp's or hunts NS's who does not have decent stun armor

An organised guild war between two elite PvP guilds?They'll have some decent stun protection, not necessarily 40%. Expect 40%+ resists in the helmet though, which makes the Jawa struggle in one-on-one scenarios where headshot is your primary attack.

An arranged duel between high-level PvPers? Yep, they'll be wearing it if they think you'll be using stun dmg. Unless they don't know your template, Jawa is likely to struggle here.

A large-scale GCW encounter, such as a base raid?IMO, bring out the Jawa. Most of the people there will be relatively new/poor players, and frankly, they will not have high level equipment. Yes, there will be lots of people there who DO have that equipment, but that doesn't mean everyone does. In scenarios like that, the expert players are hard to kill in any case, since they know when to retreat behind the lines to get patched up. Stun will still tear through rookies in a way that acid damage is never going to. In a lot of cases, people will be wearing stun helmets, with the rest of the suit having no stun protection. That's cool, since most of the time you'll be firing Flushing Shot 2 and Flurry Shot 2 to stick states on groups of people. A Krayted Jawa is going to give them a nasty surprise, and with battle-lag, they could be incapped before they know it. Headshot only comes out to kill off the wounded and infirm

Maybe on some of the newer servers but I suspect that on the more matureservers anyone who pvps will have decent 38%+ stun armor. BTW 60% psg's are totally possible as they are sliceable and since you buy them by the crate if pvp you will have several at that level all the time

In summary, I'd say you need to consider your normal 'target audience'. If it's high-level players, then I'd agree with the vote for the Dxr6b. But, I do think there's been something of a knee-jerk reactionto stun armour on this board, and all of a sudden it's the cool thing to say Jawas are useless. In reality, they will always be useful, they just aren't the 'no-brainer' that they used to be.

Also there is one thing you are ignoring... with the higher accuracy of the DXR6 you will hit much more often in pvp even against defence stackers. sure you may punch a 150point hit on some one with a jawa without stun armor but you will need to shoot 3-4 times to even get close to having a chance of hitting a defence stacker once where as with a DXR you will probably hit 80% of the time.

it doesn't just depend on what level you are fighting but also where you are fighting. On you home server of Bria rgrocott you should know that people who pvp will all have this as a normal kit. Only time a stun weapon would be better is if you catch a lone rebel who had been pot shotting some ST's and still had his pve tef up.... and he was fortunately for you not wearing his stun armor cause of the encumbrance

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Ackehece wrote:

I think the argument that many people put forward against Jawas, is that 'everyone has 40% stun these days'. That, in my experience, depends very much on what sort of PvP you're taking part in. In some cases, the Dxr6b is undoubtedly the right choice, in other cases, I vote for the Jawa.

I would say that depends more on the server. On Eclipse you will not find anyone who pvp's or hunts NS's who does not have decent stun armor

An organised guild war between two elite PvP guilds?They'll have some decent stun protection, not necessarily 40%. Expect 40%+ resists in the helmet though, which makes the Jawa struggle in one-on-one scenarios where headshot is your primary attack.

An arranged duel between high-level PvPers? Yep, they'll be wearing it if they think you'll be using stun dmg. Unless they don't know your template, Jawa is likely to struggle here.

A large-scale GCW encounter, such as a base raid?IMO, bring out the Jawa. Most of the people there will be relatively new/poor players, and frankly, they will not have high level equipment. Yes, there will be lots of people there who DO have that equipment, but that doesn't mean everyone does. In scenarios like that, the expert players are hard to kill in any case, since they know when to retreat behind the lines to get patched up. Stun will still tear through rookies in a way that acid damage is never going to. In a lot of cases, people will be wearing stun helmets, with the rest of the suit having no stun protection. That's cool, since most of the time you'll be firing Flushing Shot 2 and Flurry Shot 2 to stick states on groups of people. A Krayted Jawa is going to give them a nasty surprise, and with battle-lag, they could be incapped before they know it. Headshot only comes out to kill off the wounded and infirm

Maybe on some of the newer servers but I suspect that on the more matureservers anyone who pvps will have decent 38%+ stun armor. BTW 60% psg's are totally possible as they are sliceable and since you buy them by the crate if pvp you will have several at that level all the time

In summary, I'd say you need to consider your normal 'target audience'. If it's high-level players, then I'd agree with the vote for the Dxr6b. But, I do think there's been something of a knee-jerk reactionto stun armour on this board, and all of a sudden it's the cool thing to say Jawas are useless. In reality, they will always be useful, they just aren't the 'no-brainer' that they used to be.

Also there is one thing you are ignoring... with the higher accuracy of the DXR6 you will hit much more often in pvp even against defence stackers. sure you may punch a 150point hit on some one with a jawa without stun armor but you will need to shoot 3-4 times to even get close to having a chance of hitting a defence stacker once where as with a DXR you will probably hit 80% of the time.

it doesn't just depend on what level you are fighting but also where you are fighting. On you home server of Bria rgrocott you should know that people who pvp will all have this as a normal kit. Only time a stun weapon would be better is if you catch a lone rebel who had been pot shotting some ST's and still had his pve tef up.... and he was fortunately for you not wearing his stun armor cause of the encumbrance

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While I understand your points, I think you're missing mine. Itdoesn't matter how mature the server is, there will always be plenty of new, or relatively new, players. To say that 'everyone who PvPs will have good stun armour' is just naive. Case in point, I was at a base defence last night, and duelled a couple of people once the base had gone cold. They were master profs, butthey had no stun armour, not even helmets. They weren't 'elite' by any standards, but they were there, and there'll be plenty more like them on both sides.

I confess, I'd forgotten about the slice-ability of PSGs, but on Bria, at least, Master Smugglers are pretty darn rare these days. I guess if you have a guild smuggler who can slice a crateful for you on a regular basis, then you'd always have some one you. For me, at least, sliced PSGs are not something I'm prepared to invest the time in. Hell, I still have 5 suits of unsliced stun armour because I got sick of looking for someone to slice it. And if I can't be bothered, I promise you there's plenty of other people at those battles who can't either.

Of course, my Jawa preference may be coloured by the fact that my best Jawa is 600 max dmg, and I don't have any Dxr6b's higher than 700 max. But my main point is that, just because YOU are an expert PvPer, doesn't mean everyone on your server is. In large-scale combat, I'd rather clean out the dead wood, then focus on the experts once the enemy ranks have been thinned.

Message Edited by teamdoa on 10-20-2004 09:46 AM

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teamdoa wrote:

Well, I have to say I find the DXR-6 pretty much useless in PVP. The best I have found is a high damage T21 and some spider poison.

Message Edited by teamdoa on 10-20-2004 09:46 AM

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EvilTwilek wrote:

222-600 JAWA ION RIFLE (no up up)> all.

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