Rifleman Archive

Thanks, Styphathal, I thought it was a pretty good idea myself.

Now, I should just let this die, but I am going to make one more argument. I guess the problem I have boils down to roleplaying. You know, the RPG in MMORPG. I didn't wantgame mechanics to be the sole determinationofmy character when those game mechanics do not make sense to me based on real life experiences. There are reasons you would choose a rifle over a pistol in real life that make sense. Number one being that shooting at game doesn't send that animal rocketing toward you in a mad rage of violence, biting you three times harder than if you threw your rifle on the ground. How is it that the animal does less damage if you disarm yourself? What I am saying is that it shouldn't. Okay, make me less accurate. Make it to where I can't hit it as often, and that is punishment enough. But more damage doesn't make sense.

Number two reason you would choose a rifle over a pistol in real life is based on ammunition. For the most part, you can fire a larger round from a rifle than you can from a pistol.You have more room for that ammunition, and you have something you can hold onto when the shell explodes. A larger round means more power... more propellant behind the lead bullet. This also means that if you shoot something in the head, it dies. Now it makes logical sense that even a blaster rifle, which must house some sort of generator for the laser or whatever that comes out of the business end, would be able to house more of that power than a pistol can. Generally, then, a rifle would always do more damage than a pistol if it hit, no matter what the range.

Number three reason is accuracy over range. That long, rifled barrel allows the bullet to twist over a greater distance and stabilizes that bullet for its travel. Of course, the greater amount of propellant is sending it out farther, too. Depending on the ammunition, the pistol's shell cannot go as far as the rifle's shell, or as accurately. But the inverse is not true. The rifle is just as accurate at 25 meters as the pistol is. Okay, so your accuracy is shot if something is in your face and knocking that rifle around. That is why you then use it as a melee weapon, but obviously won't hit as hard as if you shot that weapon.

Now, if we are to compare a rifle and a pistol that fires the same exact ammunition, which in the Star Wars universe is less than a .22 caliber, the benefit of a rifle is still accuracy at range. But logically, something that takes several hits from a .22 and charges you is not going to beat you down harder holding a rifle than if they beat you down holding a pistol. You are then talking about the creature you shot, not the type of weapon you chose. The only way I would believe that is if they took the rifle away from you and beat you with it.Okay, then you are still talking about the rifle being a melee weapon.

Now if this isn't reflected in the Star Wars universe, then why even have rifles to begin with? I would guess that it is more fun to have variety and different looks for weapon choices for role-playing. So why am I being penalized for making a judgement based on looks or role-playing?

Sinjen

Honestly, I love the idea of a sniper/rifleman - but the game mechanics nerf rifle users to the point where they simply are not a viable class. A pistoleer enjoys the same accuracy at range as the rifleman does and can shoot 4 or 5 times faster. teh only defense a rifleman has is range and anyone can close that distance byt he time the rifleman makes his third shot.

What's the deal? Now if rifles had a range of 128 meters, then I could see why people would play rifleman. Right now, the rifle is sriously gimped.

I dont see Rifleman as Gimped, although I would agree the distance needs to be increased. There are major Advantages to RIfleman. First off, Rifleman does Mind dmg. You cannot heal Mind dmg, but you can heal health and action, wich most other classes do. 2nd, is the amount of dmg you do, The laser Rifle can get near the 900's. And Imagine whatthe T21 can do. The T21 will be doing lower Thousands Im guessing, although very slow. But of course you have to take in the armor factor. Also the 900 with the laser rifle was using HS2, I have HS3 and have not used HS3 with a Laser Rifle. Im assuming the DMG can hit a whole lot higher. I have been using DLT20a do to its less variance in dmg, and am hitting upper 600's with HS3.

Ideal range is also differnt on the Rifle. RIfle has an Ideal range of about 40-60 depending on the rifle. A pistol is about 15m. A pistoleer is forced to use AIM in order to have a chance at hittin 65meters out. Even then its not very likely. And if a Pistoleer is gonna shoot me from a distance, I am gonig to win. I can heal myself, while he cannot heal his mind. I can stop with the rifle, pull out my stim packs, and heal myself. Im going for Pharm 4, so when Im healing myself for 500 health/action, and letting loose 500 mind dmg. Hes not gonna be a very happy. No the Rifle is not gimped, but I do feel it should have a better maximum range then all other weapons. I would like to be ble to shoot at 100meters out, and be forced to use AIM. That would help vs the smart pistoleers/melee who choose to charge me.

I am novice pistoleer and novice rifleman and i can consistently hit things at 60m out with the pistol while running. yes, i agree that the rifle's ability to hit the mindpool for massive damage is good but if you miss, you're screwed.

What I did, was get my weapon sliced. And for every weapon I buy Im going to continue buying it until I get it speed sliced. Since slicing is random. Usually around 25 percent. So you can get the speed to around 4.7, mix that with a speed power up, and your weapon now shoots a whole lot faster.

I'd also invisioned the rifle having a much longer range. the fact that it has the same maximum range as the pistol is really silly. There are conventional rifles in real life that have accurate ranges of about 900m. Granted, they're huge and kick like a mule but they are out there.

Why then do laser rifles (which should really be able to shoot miles) only have a range of 64m? That's kinda....well....stupid. Besides, there are so many situations where LoS issues will prevent long range sniping that it won't really imbalance the game to increase the range. rifles should be able to shoot about 150-200m for game purposes and carbines should be about 100-150.

I realize that there is the eternal struggle between class balancing, game play, and realism, but clearly a rifle, carbine (which is really a SMG the way it's setup) and a pistol that all have about the same maximum range is really poor game design.

I'm sticking with rifleman because I like it from a RP perspective and because damaging the mind pool is fun (will be great for killing medics in battlefields hehe) but give us some real advantages to counteract the penalties.

Because of the game limitations. You, as the clien't aren't even aware of people past 192 meters, usually 128. So sniping at 200 meters with a rifle wouldn't work.

I completly agree with what everyone is saying here.

I role play a rifleman on Bloodfin at the moment (when i can get on anyways) and love playing it but get frustrated at two things. My character will hopefully be Squad Leader, Rifleman with a splash of 2H Sword and Ranger if it is possible.

1. Pistols can fire exaclty the same distance as i yet can fire alot quicker

2. Damage i occur when i am involved in Melee is crazy i think (x2 Damage)

Soultions.

I like the idea of a Bayonet - but with the provison that it does require a skill, and i think most would agree with me here. If they where to make an option where the rifleman could train a skill, i.e. 2H sword (you would have to use two hands in real life so im not sure why you couldnt do it here) and would enable you to use your rifle as a "sword" if a bayonet is attached with all the attributes of a 2H sword, i.e. mind pool damage. If they where to do this it would be a natural progression. Instead of getting the dreaded "too close to use that ranged attack" aslong as you where standing it would engage as a "2H Sword" attack. Winners allround. Would this make the rifleman the elite profession, i dont think it will, but will make it slightly easier to play. is it possible to do, ive no idea.

Second, they have to either increase our range or decrease the amount of damage that can be done when you are in melee. I find it crazy that a pistoleer doesnt have the increase in damage, seeing as they can fire exactly the same distance as i, yet you and i face double damage when we ingage in melee. it is the only profession i am aware of that requires a second skill to survive. If you specialise in any other skill you can rely on just that to survive, but nor rifleman, correct em if im wrong on that one.

Anyways, those are my thoughts on the ideas being put forward on these forums. And i must say, good work people, the illusion of a healthy discussion is the best way to get everything you want

Add to what i originally posted this.

In consideration of all "gun" weapons i have thought about the ranges and i think i have come up with a conclusion that all would be happy with, and why it wasnt thought of in the first place is beyond me.

If we use real life as a secnario the weapons and there ranges should be as follows.

Pistol ideal 25m, Max range 50m, Hit Speed 3.0

Carbine ideal 35m, Max Range 70m Hit Speed 4.0

Rifle ideal 50m, Max Range 100m, Hit Speed 5.0

All this is without any "improvements" that can be added but standard equipment.

Myself i think this puts more "realistic" limitations on all the weapons that are out there and doesnt advantage any specfic skill, but does help those that choose which ever profession, hell i just think it is better, what do you all think of it?

you're on the right track I think. I would just make the gaps larger and the max range of rifle should be the max range that you can see people, which according to what was just posted, is usually 128.

You can even leave in the up close penalties, I don't care. I just want to be able to smack people upside the head when I'm just a little spec on a hill in the distance. Isn't that what being a sniper is all about? Plus give us some guns that don't freaking send a trail of light from our position...sheesh. (real lasers wouldn't do that btw)

Gotta be careful about overpowering us though. Right now it is pretty sick how bad we get messed up in melee. But the ability to hit an unhealable bar that most people leave lower than their other two to begin with from a distance, not to mention for a crazy high damage number usually, is very powerful. If they couldn't kill us fast in melee, who would stand a chance? Then, you have the option of going 2h swords, which again hits their mind pool for large amounts of damage.. damage they cannot heal. So technically, a rifle/2h sword user would be **edit** near unbeatable in a fair duel.

And as for the original poster. If you wanted a weapon that would help you when you are the attacked.. rifle is logically the wrong weapon. Rifles in SWG are like sniper rifles. It is somewhat misleading that the rifles spray lasers all over as their graphic like the other guns. Think of the rifles as bolt action rifles in real life. Would you want to be holding a bolt action rifle if someone took you by surprise? hell no. Carbines are the M16s and AKs of SWG. I think you are confusing the sniper rifles and the assault rifles (carbines).

The entire point of a rifle is getting the first shot. Or at least starting the fight at max range if nothing else.

I'v never really needed a Bayonet for combat. I'm a ranger/rifleman and have no problems against creatures. All i do is maskscent, take cover, and use mindshot followed by some headshots, and usually the easier creatures die pretty quick. For more powerful creatures i mindshot, get in about 3 headshots before they run at me, and then i stand, equip my spraystick (2.5 spd), which doesn't have as high penalties as my rifle at close range, and i just run away from the creature shooting 3 - 4 times for every attack they do to me. If this doesn't kill it, the bleeding from mindshot does.


Thank you,
Ecisshot, Flurry
Novice Ranger, Novice Rifleman

allright... if you are so worried about incurring damage from a creature when you have to get into melee combat, go buy a Probot Droid. The droid kicks serious ass, and keeps the creature at a decent range for which you can utterly destroy it. I myself command the droid to attack first, then follow his attack with Mind shot, then Head shot, Head shot, Head shot. I keep headshotting until dead. I do upwards of 600-700 damage with headshot, so the battle is over fairly quickly, while my droid hits very fast and does 150-250 damage per hit. The droid helps man... you should try it out. Nothing has ever gotten close enough to kill me since I purchased the droid.