Rifleman Archive
Thread: Carbine/pistol/rifleman balances from a PvP Rifleman.
Scatter Pistols and FWG5's have more than AR1. I know this because i use Ubese armor and I recieve ZERO reduction from damage against those 2 guns. That means it has to have at LEAST AR2 to fully punch through the armor.
Actually I use scatter pistol as my primary weapon.. AR rating of 1.. come to Gorath on Dathomir and I'll show you. Simple as that..
Good points, but then again i think some of then bring rifleman out of balance a bit... people like to relate this game to real life a lot.. but what they fail to realize.. is its a GAME.. NOT REAL LIFE. Go play americas army if you want real life.. i couldnt stand the game because it was too realistic.. and if you didnt follow the rules to the letter you had to restart the dang mission..
Games are supposed to be fun.. they're part of the entertainment industry and are here to entertain.. not simulate real life. It would suck if anyone who wasnt a rifleman was getting sniped from 80 meters away.. because with the damage you guys output.. even though its slow.. from that range it would tear us apart before we got half the way to you.
Second of all.. in regards to the posters comments on pistols and how they're overpowered.. id like to disagree on that.. Yes with BH and Pistoleer skills up, we have a lot of speed/accuracy.. but if you look at any pistol.. the ideal range is between 12-15 meters.
Now i can tell i need to spell out what this means for some of you.. basically this means that the gun will be dealing optimal damage at 12-15 meters. Any closer, and you dont hit as ahrd.. any further.. and you dont hit as hard.. a pistol being fired at 50 meters away will hit for 80-100 pts of dmg maybe.. where at 15 meters it will hit for 180-200.. and specials decrease likewise.
I think the Light Lightning Cannon in BH should be cahnged to a rifle class weapon.. thena ll you guys can join up and get some modifiers from BH tree too and be happy..
But yes, a lot of the poins here are very good and make sense.. however.. a lot of your information is misguided.. i think anyone calling nerf.. or for changes.. should at elast have played a little of each class instead of simply speculating.
Just my 2 cents.
optimal range on a T21 is 0.........i get -20 accuracy modifer standing next to someone. i think its bugged
Osiris Zoran
All pistols are AR1, I bont beleive any are above that, we have 1 of the 2 AR3 weapons when its fixed. The DLT20a should not be increased to AR1, simply becuase its a weapon you use to level from lowbies. Its not meant to be on your higher up rifles.
Right now all classes are balanced, with the way PvP is, everyone has an advantage. Bounty Hunters, Smugglers, Caribines, Pistols, all have knock downs. We have an AE dmg, that stuns and dizzy. It balances out in a group enviroment pretty well. Reducing there accuracy has been mentioned a thousand times, and Ive already reported it, its pretty much all on SoEs hands now. Of course I can continue hammering it, but its mostly on SoEs hands now.
Yes knockdown is overpowered, but so is one shotting 3 people at once. Knockdown has a simple solotion, have an immunity timer to when you can be knocked down again. If Im in a group I dont have that problem, becuase as hes knocking me down I get healed, and chances are he ends up dead. I also feel, all PvP damage(not PvE) should be reduced 50 percent. The fact is, its not fun one shotting all the time. Well it is, but its not fun bieng one shotted all the time. On of my guildies is a master pistoleer, and can one shot people. Pistol Bounty hunters can one shot people. Rifleman can always one shot people. A game of one shots is not fun, and I dont think anyone should have the ability to one shot people. It removes the point of healers except to get you up from incap.
I agree with your Accuracy, we should have the best accuracy at range, while others are forced to get up close. We already have that accuracy, if my target is not moving, and Im 60 meters away, I dont miss. Add in the moving factor, I miss maybe 30 pecent of the time. But right now pistols are the same as us, and hopefully it will change.
I honestly think you based all your points off of soloing PvP, Becuase in group warfare, in the open field it all balances out, and its pretty even. Everyone has a ability that can be used to help them win, its just a matter of finding it, using it and abusing it. My guild is a PvP guild, everyday since most of us have hit master, we PvP for pretty much the entire time were on. And I find it to be fairly balanced, the only thing that actually bothers me is mind incap, and I cant get up. Since naturally I use up so much mind, that a BH, or Rifleman can easily pick on me. In group warfare on the open field, it is pretty balnced, and quite fun. But doing certain things can make it better, improve it to a point, were it is perfect. Such as makinging a temporary immunity to knockdown. Knockdown once every 10 seconds, and reducing all PvP damage by 50 percent. Those 2 things will make PvP a whole lot more fun, and balancing. Also, it will make soloin possible again. Becuase right now its not.
I used to think our speed should be reduced, but honestly I dont anymore. The speed is maybe 1 shot every 1-2 seconds, vs a pistols 3 shots every 1 second. I dont want to be sitting there watching a pistoleer riop through all my men, when Im in the back, waiting for my 10 second rifle to reload. This is the future, not the past, laser rifles are not bolt action anymore. We dont put a bolt into the gun, we simply pull the trigger, but cant hold it down. Its a simple factor of DPS, and Numbers, if we dotn have speed, we dont PvP. Despite our mass one shot ability, thats going to come once every10 seconds. If you ever want to be able to solo, you will agree speed should stay, if you ever want to be able to make a difference in a group you will gree speed should stay. Even with our speed, pistols and caribines are faster, if you want us to be slower, that is ludicrous.
"Youra BH (your using scatter pistol) and you know this. Dont try to give me this "optimal range" BS. Anywhere from 1m to 63m is a BH/pistoleers opitmal range. For a rifleman with a laser rifle? Our optimal range is from 59 meters to 61 metets. Anything outside of that and were taking -50 accuracy. "
LOL i never said anything about accuracy.. yes i hit every shot.... but whats the point if my damage is significantly reduced.. i dont know where your getting these high damage hits while burstrunning.. cause every time ive done that while running away i hit for crap.. and i HAVE missed.. again.. like i say.. dont speak unless youve tried it. You dont see me sitting here talking about elite rifleman skills because i have none.. donts peak aboutBH unless youve actually used them.
"...snip... The DLT20a should not be increased to AR1, simply becuase its a weapon you use to level from lowbies ...snip..."
Don't agree. CDEF is the newbie weapon for one, and for another there needs to be a difference from other arms and I think this is the ticket.
"Right now all classes are balanced ...snip..."
AHH HA HA HHAA HA HHA HHA HHA HAHAHA... OMG... TOO FUNNY.... one moment while I collect myself...
Quick add on different types of damage....someone brought it up and it shouldn't be glossed over, if your weapon does a special damage, ie scatter pistol or jawa ion rifle (stun weapons) they ignore AR factors...meaning they do max damage whether you are wearing armor or not, no matter what the AR of the weapon actually is, and yes we've tested it on Bloodfin.
T21's need to be fixed, they are our class defining weaons and they are broken, but then again so are the commando weapons and other high end weapons. Also, one last part of the rant outside of pvsp and more in terms of general rifle exp, give us credit for our bleeds....they are major part of our damage potential and when grouped with a pistoleer we don't stand a chance to do the same amount of damage over time on any particular mob, ie 1000k vs 3000k onmobs.
I've had numerous "discussion" within my own PA about how BH's are a class above in terms or fighting, whether SOE got it right with them or they just messed up with rifleman, there needs to be some balancing
tacobizell wrote:
Aldeon -
Reducing pvp damage 50% would SCREW us. Right now our only chance is a 1-shot incap. If we need even 2 shots to incap, we're doomed. Meanwhile, pistols will be barely effected by such a change. A BH will just need three 400-damageeyeshots on us instead of two, which will take about 2 seconds. We, on the other hand, will need two headshots, which will take about6 seconds. THINK a little.
Anyway, at least you figured out that our rifle speed doesn't need to be nerfed. Ugh...
If one class can always one shot, then everyone in the game palying that. The fact is one shots are not fun. If everyone is one shotting each other, its going to be, who gets the first shot off. Thats not fun at all, maybe in real life that how its best. But this is a game, and when everyone is one shotting each other, it takes the fun out of it. Let us not forget, if PvP damage is reduced 50 percent all classes are reduced 50 percent, giving us that extra dmg. And even if it is reduced 50 percent, there is still a chance of a one shot with a T21. (that is fixed)
And yes every class is balanced PvP wise, maybe you should go out and try some not solo, or sitting inside AH or Bestine? I do, everyday. Every class has there unique ability that makes them balanced in group warfare. Until you PvP in a group everyday, dont come telling me classes are not balanced. If you want to solo, I guess you can hope for the first shot everytime you run into people.
I posted here knowing I was going to get flamed by people who dont understand, but I was asked to post. So I posted my opinions on what he said. Some points I agree with some points I dont. All that is based of soloing, in group warfare it all balances out. Soloing is who hits the button first.
Its your choice to flame me, but instead why dont you try and back up what your saying with evidence? Tell me exactly how all classes arent balnced in group warfare?
6. -Defence Skills- Defencive skills need to make more sence and be made more effective. Besides the knockdown defences i mentioned in 5b, there needs to be other revisions done. The +20 melee defence gained from the rifle special abilties is ludicrous. We take x3 damage in melee. +20 melee defenceis meaningless. Those points should go to something that actually benifits us like, say, ranged defence. Not only did rifleman get shafted with melee defence but we got shafted with block as well. Either make this skill do something or get rid of it and substitute it with more ranged defence or defencive skills that protect vs knockdown and stun. Im sure those who went down the pistoleer or carbine tree can voice their dissapointment with some of the defencive skills they have recieved.
Alden, could you respond to this please?
Also, if i may, i have a suggestion for you to take to the devs. Perhaps conceal shot would be better if it acted more like the "aim" skill. Thus, you would que up a conceal shot then follow it with whatever shot you wished to do. This would certaintly bring the rifleman in PvE up in line with pistoleers and carbineers who either have knockdown skills or who can rapid fire warning shots.
I would ask that you at least consider this, as well as the defencive issues i adressed above.
Thank you
Aldeon -
I would venture to say that most of the people who are interested in these issues pvp in a group everyday. I certainly do.
What I've seen is that group pvp, just like solo pvp, is all about knockdowns. Our AOEs don't balance that at all. The fact is thata rifleman and a BH both have a chance to take each other out, but the BH gets that chance multiple times per second, and I get that chance every 4 seconds. There are several flawed factors in play here:
1.) Thepistols have too much accuracy at range.
2.)Knockdown can be used too frequently (more than once on a single player in a single fight).
3.) Knockdownis too often successful (posture changes often fail, but not knockdown).
4.) Knockdown can be used on a player who is already prone.
Can you deny any of those? Pvp is balanced... please.
Regarding our AOEs: I don't know whatkindof playerbase you have on starsider,but people on Corbantis know not to stay bunched together because ofour AOEs. They are ridiculously easy to counter (again, unlike the knockdown which has no counter), and also do us no good in pve, where the knockdown isALSO king.
Saying all the classes are balanced is just ridiculous. I'd be surprised if I could find a single other rifleman who would agree with you.
I would say balance is when I am more likely to win at 64 metersand a BH is more likely to win at <20 meters. Some strategy and positioning can come into play at that point. Obviously, that scenario is not currently the case.
I never have ever worried about knockdown, but the few tiems I do get hit by it I think there should be a immunity timer. Like I said before, a 10 second immunity timer. But if you play it smart you never have to worry about it. I stay in the back, theres no reason for me to be in the front. A bounty hunter isnt going to target someone in the back, if theres 5 people right in front of him.
Of course our AEs cant counter it, but we can use the AEs to take them out before they know it. Or all there friends, it takes out multiple people at a time when it works. In my opinion, thats 10 times better then any knockdown. A knockdowns doesnt do nearly enough damage to one shot you. Were my AEs do, so why worry about a knockdown, when in 2 shots you can take out 2-6 people. Especially when it does minimal damage, and a healer can out heal a knockdown any day.
There are skill mods that give you a defense vs knockdown, you dont stay down as long, giving you enough time to get back up and get another shot off. It balances out in the end, you people just have to see it. We can mass one shot people, that is 10 times better then any knockdown. I have done at most,4 people at one time. They were in a camp though, so all of them right next to each other. All 4 of them dead. I usually get 2 to 3 in one shot. But there is a bug were it shows damage in your combat screen, but the person doesnt take damage.
We can call complain about knockdown, but everytime I kill multiple people at once, I get complained too. My friends even got a screen shot of me saying I one shotted 3 people at once, so that I can never say were under powered in PvP. And I agree we are not, PvE is a different story, we have problems there. But I will take a Rifleman, over any Pistoleer, or Bounty Hunter anyday. Combine yoruself with a Master Pistoleer, and you will do great, he AE knockdowns, and we AE one shot.
So many people think the Rifleman is underpowered, but half of those people have Rifle special abilities 1, and Sniper 1. Thats very little + to speed, and + to accuracy. Get that, and you will do 10 times better.
"1.) Thepistols have too much accuracy at range."
I agree'd, Ive already said its mostly on SoEs hands now. Not much more we can do.
"4.) Knockdown can be used on a player who is already prone"
I agree, knockdown shouldnt be able to be used on people who are prone.
"Regarding our AOEs: I don't know whatkindof playerbase you have on starsider,but people on Corbantis know not to stay bunched together because ofour AOEs. They are ridiculously easy to counter "
The rifleman cone is huge, it is the largest cone I have seen. Much bigger then pistols AE knockdown. So, so is AE knockdown. I dont know about you, but my AE one shots people, If I one shot the bounty hunter he cant knock me down much can he?
The only thing that your saying making PvP not balanced is pistol accuracy, and yet that only has an effect on people soloing. And again, I have already addressed this, and its nearly 100 percent in SOEs hand. I am the most powerful in open field combat, not a pistoleer. Simply becuase most of the time it takes him 2 shots, and me 1. If PvP is not balanced, its probably more to our side, then it is the Pistoleer.
Aldeon, can you please respond to the 2 issues in the last post? They deal with:
1. The fact that 2 out of 4 of our branches are 100% useless.
2. An idea for changing conceal shot to make it more effective and friendly to riflemen.