Rifleman Archive
Thread: Correspondant Forums.
Im currently trying to get them to alter range mods along with this patch, becuase if they do not, its abad nerf to the rifleman even if they do increase our damage.
Why would you try to introduce a mechanic when solve a problem that doesn't need to be solved? The speed cap was to address the infinite speed problem. All the speed cap does is to say the fastest a 9.0s rifle can go is 3x faster at 3.0s. The same multipler is at work with the pistol. To go from 2.0s to 0.5 s is a 4x. Yes, the cap should be higher, say 1.0s or whateverfor pistol. So the speed cap doesn't introduce any unbalanceness that need to be addressed. All weapons are equally affected.
In the amount of time it takes us to shoot a 2nd shot it would take a pistoleer that time to incap us becuase of the amount of shots they can get.
This is flawed logic. If the pistoleer shoot 6x faster but does 1/6 the damage as a rifleman, than how does the weapon speed cap prevent you from getting off a 2nd shot? If anything, the rifleman have a better chance of incap a pistoleer than vice versa since you both start off shooting at the same time. Since a rifleman does 6x damage in the first round, it's the rifleman who benefit.
If you're referring to a pistoleer can do more damage over time than a rifleman, then yes, adjust the damage so they're comparable. But this is not the case.
So how does a range mod help solve anything? It doesn't.
Im still in favor of making it so they make it so styles can only be used from certain distances, as chances are they will not decrease , or increase max ranges.
If you don't know how the accuracy formula work, why do you think this is necessary? You're making the assumption that special accuracy to-hit modifier is not affected by range, but you have to data to substatiate this claim. If special is affected by range, then there's no need to introduce "range cap".
If special is not affected by range, why introduce "range cap" when a better solution is to fix the formula so that special is affected by range.
But its always good totry and keep this option alive. So making it so pistol styles only works at 32 meter or less, and caribineers 54 meters or less, would give us a well advantage over pistoleers. Giving us a chance to get the 2nd shot off if we stand still, or to run and keep them in that 32-64 meters range forcing them to use base attacks.
Again, if the range modifier is such that you hit more often at ideal range and since ideal range is different for different weapon, what does this accomplish?
Also, be careful of what you wish for. By clamoring for a range cap, dev might introduce an action delay to offset this. That means after shooting your rifle, you can't do anything for3 seconds, including run. So great, you get your range cap and pistol special doesn't work over 32m. But after shooting your first rifle shot, you can't move for 3 seconds, at which point, the pistoleer is in your face and now you can't use your special.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.
All you're doing with this nerf call is waste their time which they can be betteruse to fix the rest of the profession.
Yea and with speed cap they might make pistols do 1-10 damage and and and and and do lots nasty things to rifleman.
Rifles are surposed to have a range advantage just look at pistols ideal ranges 8m to 16 m does it seem odd that you can hit 80% your shots at 50+. I do not care if devs increase range penatlies to huge amount which we cant offset with clothing buffs to accuracy or put in a style range cap. So that weapons are actualy devided into range types rather then currect generic range weapons. Pistol/Carbine/Rifle all shot same at short and long range they just have different styles.
And yes i aggree rifles should not hit well up close and if a pistoler closes in to pistol range a rifleman is in a lot of trouble BUT guess what pistoler surposed be in a lot trouble if fight starts at 50m + but currently it doesnt matter in least.
Then just fix the range modifier. Why introduce special range cap? Seriously, do you really want to keep looking at the range to determine if you want to fire off the special? What would happen if you queue your special and the target move out of range?
If the problem is this: at max range, rifleman hit 95% but at close range he hit 50% whereas at max range a pistoleer hit 85% and at close range he hit 95%, then fix the accuracy problem by having the pistoleer hit only 50% at max range.
The reason we are calling a so called "pistol nerf" is a reason of logistics: Rifles will NEVER get a 3X damage increase to offset a 3x Slow down.
Why? One-shots. The dev's have beaten many a dead horse, saying they don't want one-shots. Some rifleman, Given a lucky roll on a HIGHLY modified Laser rifle/ Pre-nerf T-21 (what's a T-21?? never heard of em on Bria) can one shot people as is.. ANY damage increase, be it 1.5x -3.0x, will result in one-shots. The devs said they don't want Riflemen getting those, (yet it's ok for commandos to get one-shot Cones??). Plus, as I've said, the dam increase will obviously only be at the top end, giving us 25-550 Lasers. w00t w00t.
The only way to balance out the DPS of pistols and rifles, WHEN the speed cap is put in, will be to lower pistol Dam/Multipliers/Range. They can't logically lower the damage of BASE pistols, as there are MILLIONS of them out in the game, and the second the lower pistols hit Test Center, the mass hoarding will begin. The only way to fix the DPS, given the devs reluctance to up rifle damage for fear of the one-shot, is to "nerf" pistols. The nerf would have to come in the form of changes to the Multipliers on pistol styles, be it to accuracy or damage.
No Rifleman, on this or any other board, would wish a nerf on any class. If so, they are an embarassment to this class and to the community, andn00b l33t dude assuredly.
We want BALANCE. No self-respecting rifleman wants to be Uber, we just want to be more competitive. 50/50 would be great, even 40/60 would do in PvP solo. We understand we are support chars, and this is our Destiny.
2 cents from a novice rifleman
Khyras, On Bria.
Doctor/ Rifleman
"Wipe them out. ALL of them" -Devs to Riflemen
TonPhannan wrote:
AldeonAvardulin wrote:
Ive read that post Sef, and I fully agree, the only way they will ever get me to go cover in PvP, is if they give me God mode, or if they give us twice the max range, or make us invisible to radar.
Invis to radar ability is the ONLY answer to the range cap problem. This needs to be a skill mod based ability (likely inserted into the sneak ability), similar to the Mask Scent of Scouts, regarding time length and strength of ability. The range cap is the biggest problem IMO, only b/c anything can span that 64m distance in 3sec. In order to make the 3 sec cap effective, they have to give rifles 1200 max dmg...and you can bet the Pistoleers and BH's are gonna whine about that.
this is a great post ... the Devs have always stated that any range over 64m is next to Impossible (i believe i read that somewhere). so the only answer is to allow us to sneak undetected by radar. Maybe give us a "crit shot" attack ala Archers in DAOC that gave us a great deal of damage with a long "draw" time
They nerf the t21 for what reason again?
Damage
2 weeks later Commando weapons get a damage patch.
Results
t21 = bad laser rifle
Commando weapons at LEAST the same damage as our old t21's, At the very worst commando and light lightning cannon's do the same damage as our pre-nerf t21's is it just me that sees a problem with this?
Give me a real un-nerfed t21 or give me death!
Ok guys, I really like what Phuobar is saying here. It does fix the DPS issues that we are having/going to have with Pistols.
Here are some fake numbers that show what he is saying.
Pistol:
Now:
50 - 200 Speed 3.6 (Capped at 1 sec Master Pistoleer) DPS = 125
* Ideal Range 95 % accurate, DPS becomes 118.75 (125 * .95)
* Max Range 85 % accurate, DPS becomes 106.25
After Accuracy "Fix"
50 - 200 Speed 3.6 (Capped at 1 sec Master Pistoleer) DPS = 125
* Ideal Range 95% accurate, DPS becomes 118.75
* Max range 35% accurate, DPS becomes 43.75
No one right now takes accuracy into account for DPS. As long as specials are affected by accuracy I dont see any problem with putting in the speed cap for rifles. IF they can fix the accuracy mods for all professions, Rifleman included.
I don't know what the actual numbers should be. I'm sure SOE has a lot more numbers than I do but it really seems to be an easy fix. If they fix it, I could care less that Bob with his super destructo commando weapon does 10,000 damage with one hit. As long as he hits once out of every 200 shots (.05% accuracy)
Take the easy fix and see where that gets us.
Also, remember that with these changes, they need to also fix our bugs otherwise we still really suck. The Take Cover bug, the warping bug, the stutter step bug and so many others all need to be addressed as well. This would only change our average numbers
Why would pistoleers need a 3x boost in damage via the speed change, is the real question. No one understands this new speed suggestion, not even pistoleers. I'm drafting a speed post to the devs on the corr forum, maybe we'll get a response.
If indeed pistoleers got an across the board 3x damage boost...yeah, that would be insane/not balanced. I don't think it should, or will happen though. The only imbalance was at speed cap, for obvious reasons, and even with each profession there were speed cap issues. Speed is borked, no two ways about it. But the new change suggested is just as borked.
Jaegen88 wrote:Why would pistoleers need a 3x boost in damage via the speed change, is the real question. No one understands this new speed suggestion, not even pistoleers. I'm drafting a speed post to the devs on the corr forum, maybe we'll get a response.
If indeed pistoleers got an across the board 3x damage boost...yeah, that would be insane/not balanced. I don't think it should, or will happen though. The only imbalance was at speed cap, for obvious reasons, and even with each profession there were speed cap issues. Speed is borked, no two ways about it. But the new change suggested is just as borked.
I think one of the main problems here is that the great idea of a 3s cap came from the pistolteer board which will cause us to be nerfed. As stated numerous times by many riflemen, there's no way in hell the devs will give us 2x damage let alone 3x damage for dropping our speed. One shot kills is why we had the 75% damage reduction, it would totally nullify that. I would trade in my speed for proportionally increased damage, but i honestly do not believe SOE will give it to me, so i'm thoroughly against the speed cap idea.
Cepha wrote:
I think one of the main problems here is that the great idea of a 3s cap came from the pistolteer board which will cause us to be nerfed. As stated numerous times by many riflemen, there's no way in hell the devs will give us 2x damage let alone 3x damage for dropping our speed. One shot kills is why we had the 75% damage reduction, it would totally nullify that. I would trade in my speed for proportionally increased damage, but i honestly do not believe SOE will give it to me, so i'm thoroughly against the speed cap idea.
Agreed, this is why I'm having so much trouble with the proposed speed changes, if we do have reduced speed where are the benefits we gain to make up for it?
Conceal is pointless because going prone is pointless, even with extra defence it will still be pointless. Changing 2.5x melee damage to 2x melee damage is not going to fix the melee damage issue.
Raisingrifleman damage by 10% won't make many riflemen who are used to shooting at 2s per special very happy when they're shooting at 3 seconds per special.
I think one of the main problems here is that the great idea of a 3s cap came from the pistolteer board which will cause us to be nerfed. As stated numerous times by many riflemen, there's no way in hell the devs will give us 2x damage let alone 3x damage for dropping our speed. One shot kills is why we had the 75% damage reduction, it would totally nullify that. I would trade in my speed for proportionally increased damage, but i honestly do not believe SOE will give it to me, so i'm thoroughly against the speed cap idea.
Yeah, theweapon speed cap proposal on the pistoleer forum wasn't a good idea, I fought against that. To be fair, the actual proposal was a speed cap based on weapon, not the actual 3.0 s. Honestly, if it's capped at 1.5 s, the weapon speed cap isn't that bad. It's capping at 3.0 s which sucks.
Heck, capping at 2.0 second and modestly boosting the rifle damage by 33% would be fine to. Then dev can say rifleman can't fire as fast as pistoleer. Carbineer can be capped at 1.5 with a slight boost to damage.
I personally would have no problems with a second cap, along with a 33% damage increase to our damage multipliers not just the guns themselves. This would alleviate the problem of having to buy 2-4 new guns, as most of us more than one gun. It would also take away the temptation of the Devs to put any damage increase we get on the top end, which is exactly where we don't need it. I, for one, would fail to see the point of a 25-650 damage laser rifle. I wouldn't use one. Now, if it was 200-400, LESS AVERAGE damage, but Dizamn! I would kill fora gun like that.
The only problem I have with the 2 second cap is what will happen to Master Riflemen. That huge bonus we get at master would be almost useless. Now, shift that bonus down the line, to make it a bit easier on novices, or give an new carrot to Masters, and we may be on to something.
2 second speed cap, with an IMMEDIATE 33% damage increase, not 2-3 months later, would work for me
Khyras, On Bria.
Doctor/ Rifleman
"Wipe them out. ALL of them" -Devs to Riflemen