Rifleman Archive
Thread: How AR really works
I must disagree, from my experience armor works in a different, mysterious way. I'm going to bed now, to verify how armor really works try dueling wearing a helmet and read the logs. For an ap3 weapon the armor should absorb half its effectiveness, which isn't true because when i tested it my 72% composite helm absorbed roughly half the damage and not 36%. When being hit with a ap0 weapon my armor should absorb 90% of the damage, which is isn't occuring either. Would be overpowered and terrible for pistol users 
Master Doc/rifle nowI gotta say I think the designer that wrote that was smoking the marijuina. With AR2 wepons like axes I can hit unprotected mobs for more than combat spam damage.
To be honest, i think it would be easier to balance the game if armor and armor penetration worked as described.
EasyMcRhinopants wrote:
I gotta say I think the designer that wrote that was smoking the marijuina. With AR2 wepons like axes I can hit unprotected mobs for more than combat spam damage.
To be honest, i think it would be easier to balance the game if armor and armor penetration worked as described.
While I agree that it would be easier, I am loath to see another one of our advantages go.
PyscoJuggalo, I believe the Krayt would act as if it had 33.75 cold resist. However this seems a small penalty for using a AP0 gun on an AR3 mob.
If this how AP really works then I do not see any reason whatsoever for the nerf of the T21. If AP does not increase the damage done how can changing a weapon to AP3 make it overpowered?
Am I missing something here? It just seems very wrong to me.
I think we are getting hosed.
Wasn't the dmg multiplier of AR3 the reason the T21 was nerfed?
Seflyn: I don't think the dev was saying that AP doesn't add damage. The pictures you posted are consistent with a Laser Rifle (AP2) shooting a critter with no armor and no resists.
Against an unarmored opponent with no resists:
AP0 = Base Damage (i.e. the damage that shows up in your combat window)
AP1 = Base Damage * 1.25
AP2 = Base Damage * 1.25 * 1.25
AP3 = Base Damage * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.25
In your first picture, the text in your combat window reads:
You use Advanced Strafe on a fanned rawl for 4166 points of damage!
The Laser Rifle is AP2.
4166 * 1.25 * 1.25 = 6509.375
You hit for 6510, which is close enough to 6509.375 that it was almost certainly rounded up.
Likewise, in the second post, your base damage is 3838.
3838 * 1.25 * 1.25 = 5996.875
I've never seen a rawl of any kind, fanned or otherwise, but based on this, I can tell you that they have no armor and no resist vs. Energy.
From my own experimentation, I have verified that resists work as advertised as well. If I shoot at something with 15% Resistance vs. Energy, and has no armor, then the "floaty" damage I do is reduced by 15%.
If I shoot something that has no armor and no resists for 1000 points of Base Damage from my T21, the Floaty Damage is:
1000 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.25 = 1953.125
If I shoot something with no armor and 15% Energy Resist for 1000 points of Base Damage from my T21, the Floaty Damage will be 85% of 1953.125, or 1660.
I have tested this myself and found it to work exactly in this manner.
What I have NOT tested yet is how AP works against critters with actual armor. Need to do that soon.
That's how I understand it is working now VolstedGridban, my point however, was that I didn't think what the Dev said and my damage matched up.
"Therefore, if a weapon attacks with a damage type of the armor's vulnerability, all of the damage goes through with no damage reduction, but no damage increase either."
This Dev postseems to imply to me that the either * 1.25 extra damage for every count the AP is over the AR of target is wrong, or that against a high AP value weapon, people wearing no armour should take less damage than people wearing armour.
I'll try and find someone to test if AP is adding damage onto players wearing no armour, but I have a feeling the result will be no increase in damage.If this is intended,it would mean armour is of even less value than many people thought.
Seflyn wrote:
This Dev postseems to imply to me that the either * 1.25 extra damage for every count the AP is over the AR of target is wrong, or that against a high AP value weapon, people wearing no armour should take less damage than people wearing armour.
I think what he may have been saying is that "vulnerable" doesn't translate to "extra damage over and above what you'd normally get." That's how I read the "all of the weapon's damage goes through" bit, anyways.
(Faction) NPCs and other players seem to calculate way different
The T21 is a joke.
He is talking about target's vulnerability, this has nothing to do with AR in his comment. It means that if the mob is AR1 and 30% vulnerability with your dmg type, he will suffer an additionnal 30% or less if result is above base dmg.
The AP > AR thing is working like you said but some weapons (DX2 for example) is uffering a bug. Even an AR0 mob with vulnerability to Acid (even 1%) won't get extra dmg from AP1.
This is a known bug, a few weapons are like that.
Dyriel wrote:
Dunno if it was already stated but I think you're misreading this dev'x comment.
He is talking about target's vulnerability, this has nothing to do with AR in his comment. It means that if the mob is AR1 and 30% vulnerability with your dmg type, he will suffer an additionnal 30% or less if result is above base dmg.
The AP > AR thing is working like you said but some weapons (DX2 for example) is uffering a bug. Even an AR0 mob with vulnerability to Acid (even 1%) won't get extra dmg from AP1.
This is a known bug, a few weapons are like that.
There's no such thing as '30% vulnerability'. Targets have 'resists' (which are expressed as a percentage) or 'vulnerabilities' (which are 'resists' of value 0%). A vulnerable target, currently, means your weapon operates as if it was AR 0 and the target was AR 0.