Rifleman Archive

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Auraboron wrote:

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Ackehece wrote:

Probably not... we need a good defense for the power we have now or we will lose it. The correspondents for 5 combat professions are already calling for nerfs on us.

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Not one single one of us used the word "nerf".

What we asked for was minimum ranges, not damage reduction.

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Message Edited by Ackehece on 04-17-2005 05:03 PM

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Auraboron wrote:

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Ackehece wrote:

Probably not... we need a good defense for the power we have now or we will lose it. The correspondents for 5 combat professions are already calling for nerfs on us.

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Not one single one of us used the word "nerf".

What we asked for was minimum ranges, not damage reduction.

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rifhgt after we get a range of 150 meters like any rifleman would actually have, after we can snipershot while standing, after we can do cone damage again...then yea..get minimum ranges in and other stuff.

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Pahaddino wrote:

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Ackehece wrote:

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Auraboron wrote:

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Ackehece wrote:

Probably not... we need a good defense for the power we have now or we will lose it. The correspondents for 5 combat professions are already calling for nerfs on us.

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Not one single one of us used the word "nerf".

What we asked for was minimum ranges, not damage reduction.

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hmm I thought that the idea of min range was still covered by NDA....

in that case - THE IDEA I THINK BREAKS US!

These gentlebeings want to place a 35m min range on our rifles. Effectively gating us from content and for using our chosen weapons. They believe we should have to use lower level pistols to enter places such as the DW bunker and the corvette since we can never get a 35m area across which to shoot. With a max range on conceal and snipershot of 45m (non advanced versions) they are effectivelyleaving usa 10m range band in which we can fire weapons.

This of course is a NERF in every definition I can think of related to MMORPGs

Message Edited by Ackehece on 04-17-2005 05:03 PM

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35m is too strong.

Pistol should range 0-40m

Carbine should range 10-50m

Rifleman should range 20-60m

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Any limitation in this way is too strong, whoever though of this nerf didn't think hard enough.While it might sound balancing for PvP, it's a complete disaster for PvE in a game where 90% of the PvE content moves into melee range. How would a rifleman actually gain rifle XP? How would a carbineer actually gain carbine XP? They would have to be so boosted in damage output, since they would have tobe able to kill NPC's before they can get within that minimum range.

I'm sure no one wants riflemen to have a trippled DPS, right? This IS what would have to be done, since it's fairly impossible to kill a white-conning animal before it reaches you in PvE. No matter how much kiting or how succesful you are with your knee-cap shots, your target will be within 20 meters before you can manage to kill them.

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Ackehece wrote:

These gentlebeings want to place a 35m min range on our rifles.

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Well I can think of at least 1 more issue that would lead to that destroying the game for riflebeings.

In the PvE testing that I've done so far, the NPC AI almost always closes to within 32m of you when you attack, especially those equipped with pistols. Melee fighting mobs will always close right up too.

If the devs are serious that we need to go prone to use most of our specials then unless we can crawl real real fast we will virtually always end up fighting mobs within 32m.

If our maximum range was at least 128m and we had a rooting special that actually worked then it would make some sense, otherwise it'll just end up adding to the list of reasons for people to quit.

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Vicotnik wrote:

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Pahaddino wrote:

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Ackehece wrote:

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Auraboron wrote:

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Ackehece wrote:

Probably not... we need a good defense for the power we have now or we will lose it. The correspondents for 5 combat professions are already calling for nerfs on us.

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Not one single one of us used the word "nerf".

What we asked for was minimum ranges, not damage reduction.

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hmm I thought that the idea of min range was still covered by NDA....

in that case - THE IDEA I THINK BREAKS US!

These gentlebeings want to place a 35m min range on our rifles. Effectively gating us from content and for using our chosen weapons. They believe we should have to use lower level pistols to enter places such as the DW bunker and the corvette since we can never get a 35m area across which to shoot. With a max range on conceal and snipershot of 45m (non advanced versions) they are effectivelyleaving usa 10m range band in which we can fire weapons.

This of course is a NERF in every definition I can think of related to MMORPGs

Message Edited by Ackehece on 04-17-2005 05:03 PM

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35m is too strong.

Pistol should range 0-40m

Carbine should range 10-50m

Rifleman should range 20-60m

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Any limitation in this way is too strong, whoever though of this nerf didn't think hard enough.While it might sound balancing for PvP, it's a complete disaster for PvE in a game where 90% of the PvE content moves into melee range. How would a rifleman actually gain rifle XP? How would a carbineer actually gain carbine XP? They would have to be so boosted in damage output, since they would have tobe able to kill NPC's before they can get within that minimum range.

I'm sure no one wants riflemen to have a trippled DPS, right? This IS what would have to be done, since it's fairly impossible to kill a white-conning animal before it reaches you in PvE. No matter how much kiting or how succesful you are with your knee-cap shots, your target will be within 20 meters before you can manage to kill them.

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Pahaddino wrote:

I partially disagree.

It will be somehow harder at low level, but with 1 friend melee tanking or 1 friend that root for you, you will have no issue.

And very fast, you will gain abilities that make you kill your target before it reaches you.

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I quite expected to have minimum ranges as soon as I saw the 'range' stat on the weapons. I quite like the idea (and I plan to be rifleman post CU). Allow us to keep our high damage specials (if they are high damage, not tested myself yet) but have a minimum on *some* weapons to counter this. Now this "some" word is the key point for me. Certainly the newb weapons should stay as is (0-35m), with maybe some mid damage weapon (Spray Stick - it even looks suitable for up close fights) should be 0-64m, then as we get into the 'sniper' style rifles these should have a min range. I think 35m is a bit harsh, maybe 10m would be more suitable. The idea for me would then be to go prone/cover at a distance and start sniping away with your best gun, if/when you're found try to hinder their advance with kneeshot/other root attack. Once they're within 10m you'll need to use 'melee strike' (is it that? The KD move, anway.) to get a chance to run, or swap down to a mid level weapon until you can get some distance on them.

Might make for some interesting fights, or it may be game breaking for us. Would be good to test (the min range should be an easy stat to change on the weapons for say a day or 2 for testing) to see how I feel.

Certainly having a min range on anything classed as a 'rifle' would be quite breaking, but having it on the top level so called 'sniper' rifles might be OK as long as their damage output is set to match this restriction.

What's up with weapons anyway? They're still all 2.5spd so I guess they all need tweaking yet.

Anway, that's my thoughts on the issue.

• blocked from content (try the dwb, corvette, geo cave or the warren where you can't shoot at things within 35m)




• we could use cross profession weapons like pistols etc - but we would have to use a lesser weapon then everyone else to do it


• if we take a melee profession we have a 30m band where we can not attack




• we are forced to take another ranged profession to fill in the gap


• in RL all weapons fire up to point blank (if it had a burst radius you would not want to fire it - and yet the commandos can fire their weapons with burst radius at pointblank)


• basic conceal shot only works out to 45m so you have a 10m ranged band for our profession defining skill until you reach advanced conceal shot

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Ackehece wrote:

reasons why 35m min is wrong

• blocked from content (try the dwb, corvette, geo cave or the warren where you can't shoot at things within 35m)




• we could use cross profession weapons like pistols etc - but we would have to use a lesser weapon then everyone else to do it


• if we take a melee profession we have a 30m band where we can not attack




• we are forced to take another ranged profession to fill in the gap


• in RL all weapons fire up to point blank (if it had a burst radius you would not want to fire it - and yet the commandos can fire their weapons with burst radius at pointblank)


• basic conceal shot only works out to 45m so you have a 10m ranged band for our profession defining skill until you reach advanced conceal shot

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/agree

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Ackehece wrote:

reasons why 35m min is wrong

• blocked from content (try the dwb, corvette, geo cave or the warren where you can't shoot at things within 35m)




• we could use cross profession weapons like pistols etc - but we would have to use a lesser weapon then everyone else to do it


• if we take a melee profession we have a 30m band where we can not attack




• we are forced to take another ranged profession to fill in the gap


• in RL all weapons fire up to point blank (if it had a burst radius you would not want to fire it - and yet the commandos can fire their weapons with burst radius at pointblank)


• basic conceal shot only works out to 45m so you have a 10m ranged band for our profession defining skill until you reach advanced conceal shot


• Impossible to get rifle XP at the same rate as other professions get their XP, unless riflemen are given the ability to kill mobs before they get within the "minimum range".

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Just had to add one.