Rifleman Archive
Thread: Is it just me or did the nerf herders go away...
Maybe they are all crying nerf to the barely half assed fixed profession of carbine, cause im sure they are gettig this crap, i am master brawler and some *tear* carbineer used full auto single 2 and knocked me down for like 5 seconds. thats not fair, cause i cant lunge from 50 m away if he uses knockdown first.
Hehe my little poke fun at both groups of that argument, anyways, seemingly ours has slowed down and other professions are getting it a little more.
Oryaka Drake
Naritus
Master Weaponsmith/ Master Rifleman(Been Rifleman Since July, One of the Good Old Boys)
Krayts Gate, Tatooine (ACME Town Tattoine)
Shops Located: Krayts Gate ACME Mall
Mos Quito RAID Mall
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:
I think they just got tired of arguing with us because we knew our role, knew our profession, and knew why we should stay the way we are. We also knew what other factors in the game made it so that we seem overpowered and we know ways to fix those that will not only make us "weaker" but make everything else stronger. How can you argue against armor being made better rather then nerf the jawa? How can you argue that 0 cost specials are an inteded feature, or everyone wearing 80% armor with no repercussions is intended? You can't and so it was basically us with good well founded arguments and them just screaming at the top of their lungs that we are "uber" with no backing beyond "I got killed by someone with a rifle" or looking at us with the skewed stats and powers that everyone can get but noone should.
So you're saying that every non rifleman doesn't know his or her class or how to play it effectively? If so (and it appears to me you are) I would suggest seeing a pyscologist.
To claim as such would suggest that this game is somewhat balanced. It simply is not. The fact that a Master Rifleman shoots faster than a pistoleer hits much harder than a pistoleer and can attack attack the mind unlike a pistoleer is an imbalance bordering on ludacrious. The exact same can be said for carbineers who also have to suffer the penalty of no stun damage weapon.
Mind you I don't think that rifleman is all that much more effective in pve (targeting a creatures, or NPC's mind doesn't have nearly the same effect as targeting a PC's mind) but there is quite an obvious imbalance in pvp. For example lets roughly compare a Master Rifleman to a Master Carbineer in an offensive perspective. First of all and I believe most importanly comes the weapon damage types. Rifleman currently have access to and correct me if I'm wrong 4 damage types. Namely Cold damage, Energy damage, Acid damage and stun damage. Carbineers recieve Energy, Heat, and Acid. Without exploring the damage type issue any farther there doesn't appear to be anything all that out of whack and there wouldn't be if each of these damage types each had an equal ability for the target to negate. The fact is that they do not. Having stun damage as a vulnerability on every type of armor means that in order to protect ones self from it one must seek out stun layered armor. Thats all fine and dandy isn't it? All you have to do is get some stun layered armor and you're good to go. Nope its not. With the way the crafting system currently operates it means that it is impossible to achieve the same level of protection against stun as it is that of any other damage type. In fact at maximum (under perfect conditions using perfect resources) the protection against stun damage is merely half that of the other damage types. Therein lies the largest problem in my opinion.
The next major imbalance comes in the way the speed system operates. From what I have heard a +5 in speed equates to a 5% speed reduction. A speed of 100 or more will allow for the ability to fire any attack at the speed cap. Rifleman are very close to being able to do this as they recieve +90 speed. Pistoleer if I'm not mistaken recieves +75 speed and Carbineer recieves a +60 speed. If you can't see an imbalance in this than one must be blind, ignorant or just plain stupid. As it currently stands now a Master Rifleman can fire a 7 speed weapon faster than a Master Carbineer can fire a 3 speed weapon all the while doing far greater damage every shot. If someone could please explain to me how or why this is a fair and justified system please explain it to me.
After that rather lengthy post I'll end with this. I don't agree that Rifleman should be nerfed. I'm pro-balance through fixing not pro-balance from nerfing. Its to bad the combat rebalance which will hopefully address all of these issues has been delayed.
Message Edited by Peudas on 04-02-2004 03:27 AM
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:
Peudas I don't want to go into this too deeply because the same arguments have been made, in fact the mere fact that all of these points aren't in some thread on the main page is the entire subject for this post so please forgive me if it seems I am shortchanging you on details but a very simple search or just using the history page a few times will easily bring up the points in more detail.
First: The fact that a Master Rifleman shoots faster than a pistoleer hits much harder than a pistoleer and can attack attack the mind unlike a pistoleer is an imbalance bordering on ludacrious.
This is actually our role and the way we are meant to be played. We are supposed to shoot hard and shoot fast (however firing strafeshot 2 as an MRM with a normal gun only goes once every 2.5 seconds, over twice the speed cap) and if the need is required or wanted to shoot the mind. There is no imbalance in this when we are also given our very obvoius and degrading con. What is this con you ask? Well I'm not surprised at the question because the current way that combat is played you actually cannot see it. Our con is HAM cost.
If I were to fire 5 shots, maybe 6/7 if I were a human with maxed out mind (a bug, they should be lower) my mind would be exhausted, removing both my ability to fire special shots as well as my ability to heal myself. Now you are saying that 5 shots are enough to kill a man, this is true if they all hit, however a battle is not and should not be fought using 1700 tactics of standing still at range and firing when ready, so I am going to be on the move and so will you. We have the lowest to hit while moving mod in the game and we are meant to have piss poor accuracy up close (that is buggy so that we have fair accuracy in melee range, however pistols also have fair accuracy in our realm) so the battle is truly only decided for our favor by lucky dice rolls and the fact that you are getting hit in the same bar. (easy for headshots not nearly as much for strafes)
But this is all on our end of the fight, you have to realize that you are hitting us as well and for high amounts of damage. Being a rifleman I am required to have maximum mind stats in order to be able to fire my piddly amount of specials before my mind is too taxed. This means that my health and action stats (normally sub-stats but still) are deficient, again something you can't tell during combat because of the way the game has evolved to include buffs. Because of these low stats and the fact that armor encumberance almost entirely affects mind I am unable to wear any armor or at best a single piece of high quality. So you are dealing full damage to me while I am most likely dealing a slightly lowered amount of damage to you due to your ability to wear armor, and remember that we are unable to stim all the damage done to us back up as well as fire specials. For us it is an either or consequenceSo thanks to these facts, all told the battle is going to be over in 4 shots and the victor really just wins thanks to luck and the first shot that gets off and we don't automatically win for being so imbalanced.
As per our profession having a useful weapon that does stun damage...it is only useful because that is the only pocket in armor that is attackable. The exhaust pipe in the death star so to speak. You shouldn't blame the moisture farmor for having the proton torps, you should blame the architect for providing the target. Armor needs to be reconfigured. It is too protective and too invulnerable. Hell everyone is in the exact same suit, the only difference is the color and a few of the stats because their armorsmith used different materiel.
Weaken armor, or more accurately give armor a weakness, and pistols and carbines will be useful to a much greater extent. Remove buffs that tun the christmas color bars an impossible target and an infinite pool and carbines and pistols will once again be made stronger. I know from lurking on the GCW forum that I am not the only person to realize this, and in actuality I think we riflemen were amongst the first to see some of it. We should never be able to fire with 0 HAM cost, and our very own psycho (not me, another one) has proposed a solution to the armor predicament that is really very all encompasing and sets a lot of the deficienceies of the current system to right.
Yep this is about what needs to be done to makecombat more balanced.
PyscoJuggalo wrote:
Yep this is about what needs to be done to makecombat more balanced.
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:
PyscoJuggalo wrote:
Yep this is about what needs to be done to makecombat more balanced.
Actually I was just describing what it was like to do combat back in the first few months, I always died then because I wasn't a master of course but knowing how good we are now I probably would have won much more often, and explaining how nothing has changed with our weaknesses since I almost never use buffs in PvE and I haven't seen a single change outside of the power of my T-21 going up a bit like every other weapon in the game.
The bottom half of your post talks about whats wrong with things, buffs, human focus stats, and armor. It's that recency effect, were your STM only remembers what you last read. Thats my fault
Peudas I don't want to go into this too deeply because the same arguments have been made, in fact the mere fact that all of these points aren't in some thread on the main page is the entire subject for this post so please forgive me if it seems I am shortchanging you on details but a very simple search or just using the history page a few times will easily bring up the points in more detail.
First: The fact that a Master Rifleman shoots faster than a pistoleer hits much harder than a pistoleer and can attack attack the mind unlike a pistoleer is an imbalance bordering on ludacrious.
This is actually our role and the way we are meant to be played. We are supposed to shoot hard and shoot fast (however firing strafeshot 2 as an MRM with a normal gun only goes once every 2.5 seconds, over twice the speed cap) and if the need is required or wanted to shoot the mind. There is no imbalance in this when we are also given our very obvoius and degrading con. What is this con you ask? Well I'm not surprised at the question because the current way that combat is played you actually cannot see it. Our con is HAM cost.
If I were to fire 5 shots, maybe 6/7 if I were a human with maxed out mind (a bug, they should be lower) my mind would be exhausted, removing both my ability to fire special shots as well as my ability to heal myself. Now you are saying that 5 shots are enough to kill a man, this is true if they all hit, however a battle is not and should not be fought using 1700 tactics of standing still at range and firing when ready, so I am going to be on the move and so will you. We have the lowest to hit while moving mod in the game and we are meant to have piss poor accuracy up close (that is buggy so that we have fair accuracy in melee range, however pistols also have fair accuracy in our realm) so the battle is truly only decided for our favor by lucky dice rolls and the fact that you are getting hit in the same bar. (easy for headshots not nearly as much for strafes)
But this is all on our end of the fight, you have to realize that you are hitting us as well and for high amounts of damage. Being a rifleman I am required to have maximum mind stats in order to be able to fire my piddly amount of specials before my mind is too taxed. This means that my health and action stats (normally sub-stats but still) are deficient, again something you can't tell during combat because of the way the game has evolved to include buffs. Because of these low stats and the fact that armor encumberance almost entirely affects mind I am unable to wear any armor or at best a single piece of high quality. So you are dealing full damage to me while I am most likely dealing a slightly lowered amount of damage to you due to your ability to wear armor, and remember that we are unable to stim all the damage done to us back up as well as fire specials. For us it is an either or consequenceSo thanks to these facts, all told the battle is going to be over in 4 shots and the victor really just wins thanks to luck and the first shot that gets off and we don't automatically win for being so imbalanced.
As per our profession having a useful weapon that does stun damage...it is only useful because that is the only pocket in armor that is attackable. The exhaust pipe in the death star so to speak. You shouldn't blame the moisture farmor for having the proton torps, you should blame the architect for providing the target. Armor needs to be reconfigured. It is too protective and too invulnerable. Hell everyone is in the exact same suit, the only difference is the color and a few of the stats because their armorsmith used different materiel.
Weaken armor, or more accurately give armor a weakness, and pistols and carbines will be useful to a much greater extent. Remove buffs that tun the christmas color bars an impossible target and an infinite pool and carbines and pistols will once again be made stronger. I know from lurking on the GCW forum that I am not the only person to realize this, and in actuality I think we riflemen were amongst the first to see some of it. We should never be able to fire with 0 HAM cost, and our very own psycho (not me, another one) has proposed a solution to the armor predicament that is really very all encompasing and sets a lot of the deficienceies of the current system to right.
MAYBE ITS THE CALM BEFORE THE STORM
MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAH.
'Sniper' Gecko
Master rifleman
Master Armorsmith
Bria