Rifleman Archive

Thread: Does this mean no more headshot?

Gonzotha
Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:14 pm
#1

This is from the publish 8 notes under the"DroidInvasion is here"feature:

http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=Publish%208%20Preview


"The second aspect of the Combat balance will be the HAM redesign. A very critical part of the overall combat rebalance is the change to the functionality of the HAM system. This change will allow a greater ease in balancing overall HAM costs for weapons and special moves. It will also allow Mind to be removed as a special damage type and place equal emphasis on Health, Action and Mind pools for both abilities and damage."


Does that mean what i think it does or amI misreading it somehow?


-Gonz



-Gonzotha (AGENT)
DVader539
Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:59 pm
#2

It's poorly worded, and that's all we know. Move along.



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piezo
Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:02 pm
#3

I'm pretty sure that it basically means that special attacks will no longer drain actual ham. Since mind is the only one not easily healed, it will have less importance. Currently you can spam some specials, and say, lose 100 to each of your bars, then turn around and heal action and health, leaving mind -100. In the new system you would spam specials and instead of draining ham, you will just not be able to use the specials for a while.



(this is at least how i understand it)





Piezoh
DrPiezo



I SAID WE'LL CUT OFF YOUR CHONSON!
Gonzotha
Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:02 pm
#4

Anyone ealse have an idea what this means?


-Gonz





-Gonzotha (AGENT)
WayneInAustin
Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:05 pm
#5

I'm not so sure its poorly worded. I'm kind ofafraid it does mean what it sounds like. Klawlegna, have your secretary call his secretary... I think it's time for a little chit chat over lunch....




____________________________________________
Way'ev-Da on Eclipse
Came to life in Restuss, on Rori, 07/03/2003
Master Rifleman 10/18/2003 - present
Master Smuggler 1/25/2004 - 11/05/2004
Dancer buffs + Muon + Musician Buffs + Vasarian Brandy = Sex, Drugs, Rock&Roll, and Alcohol(Man, I love this job!)


Fitzdraco
Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:50 pm
#6

Ok here is my poorly informed opionion.


Right now the mind pool is speical as it can't be healed. They took out mind healing because it allowed doctors to loop there skills. They could heal all willy nilly and then heal there mind when it got low.


This gave mind a very power place in combat. If you could target the mind pool you were hitting something that was irrapacable for that combat. Sure there were a few food items and spice you could use but that was much more limeted then stim packs for health and action.


So what they are doing is changing the ham system.

Damage and ham costs will be tracked seperately.

Say you have a pool of 1000. You use a speical that costs 100 pts. The game treats it as though you have 100 pts of damage. You could heal that if you wanted and the tool was there.


In the new system you have 1000 pts and use a 100 pt speical. Instead of giving you 100 pts of damage it will lower your pool to 900. This means that you won't be able to heal past 900. This will remove the loop that doctors had and they can put the ability to heal the mind pool back in.


Now from what I have read the pool loss will regenerate faster then damage.


All in all if this is what happens it will have mixed effects for us. We have high ham cost so it could hurt us in theory, but we already are in a clase that has this essential system. So no big change there. Other proffesions will have to learn to cope with not healing the damage caused by there own speicals.


Note this is based on various sources and isn't word on high but I would be surprised if it was much different then this.



If there really is a God who created the entire universe with all of its glories, and He decides to deliver a message to humanity, He will not use, as His messenger, a person on cable TV with a bad hairstyle." - David Barry

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." - George
Carlin
Zito75
Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:42 pm
#7






Fitzdraco wrote:

Ok here is my poorly informed opionion.


Right now the mind pool is speical as it can't be healed.





Not true...an 0/4/0/0 Combat Medic can heal mind...as a master CM, I often use this to help out my friends in battle, i simply give time to someone being attacked by a rifleman by healing their mind



Zito Ipod - Radiant
Master Rifleman - Master Combat Medic
OneHung
Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:45 pm
#8


That post can lead in many directions, we really don't know unless they release the notes and we look for ourselves on test center. I think the mind will be able to be healed with stims in the upcoming publish.

Message Edited by OneHung on 03-22-2004 05:45 PM



RETIRED
Sotaudi
Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:52 pm
#9










Gonzotha wrote:

This is from the publish 8 notes under the"DroidInvasion is here"feature:

http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=Publish%208%20Preview


"The second aspect of the Combat balance will be the HAM redesign. A very critical part of the overall combat rebalance is the change to the functionality of the HAM system. This change will allow a greater ease in balancing overall HAM costs for weapons and special moves. It will also allow Mind to be removed as a special damage type and place equal emphasis on Health, Action and Mind pools for both abilities and damage."


Does that mean what i think it does or amI misreading it somehow?


-Gonz





I must strongly disagree with my esteemed colleagues. Yes, as others mentioned, it is poorly worded. But I disagree that we cannot reasonably guess what they mean. The problem is that people misreading the term "special damage type," and then failing to read the whole paragraph to get the whole context.


"Special damage" does not mean "damage from specials." Mind is a "special damage type" not because it is a pool targeted specials, but because it is unhealable. Therefore, damage to the mind is handled differently than any other pool, making it a "special damage type." This is easily confirmed to be the context by reading the rest of the sentence.


It says they want to "place equal emphasis on Health, Action and Mind pools for both abilities and damage." We already know that the upcoming HAM system changes are going to make HAM costs from abilities (special attacks) unhealable on all pools by taking the HAM cost of the special from the pool maximum, no longer assessing it as damage (a lowering of the current pool value). That cost will repair itself at an accelerated rate, but because it lowers the maximum, heals (a restoring of the current pool value) will no longer repair HAM costs from abilitiesto any pool. This means that Riflemen will no longer gimped in combat because onlytheir primary HAM costs are unheable. Everyone's will be, and, thus, there will be an equal emphasis on HAM costs with regard to abilities. But they also said they want equal emphasis with regard to damage.


Now, that being the case, how can they remove mind as a "type of damage caused by specials" and not also remove "health as special damage type" and "action as a special damge type" as well. If they do not, then they could not "place equal emphasis" on all pools with regard to damage. There is no indication in that text that they are removing health and action as "types of damage done by specials," so there is no contextual reason to accept the interpretation that "special damage type" means a "type of damage done by specials." In fact, there is sufficient contextual reason to reject that interpretation.


Conversely, they cannot put equal emphasis on damage to all three pools if health and action are healable damage types, but mind remains a special,unhealable damage type. Since they are making HAM costs from abilities unhealable, the only reasonable conclusion that I can draw is that this means they are making mind healable in the upcoming patch. Thus, the change will be that costs from everyone's specials will become healable, but damage from combat will become healable on all pools. As far as I can see, that is the only reasonable interpretation of that text.





Sotaudi Crestlighter
Master Rifleman / Master Combat Medic
"The Physician's Pain Reference"

Former Professions
Master Doctor | Master Swordsman | Master Brawler
Master Scout | Ranger



Protteus
Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:02 pm
#10






Zito75 wrote:





Fitzdraco wrote:

Ok here is my poorly informed opionion.


Right now the mind pool is speical as it can't be healed.





Not true...an 0/4/0/0 Combat Medic can heal mind...as a master CM, I often use this to help out my friends in battle, i simply give time to someone being attacked by a rifleman by healing their mind






True but the point is thats not as practical as Novice Medic with uber stim b's healing 600 per pool in 1 shot.



::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
-=Protteus Zarkof=-
Jedi Knizight
"No Mercy for the Weak"
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>
Sotaudi
Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:18 pm
#11






Protteus wrote:





Zito75 wrote:





Fitzdraco wrote:

Ok here is my poorly informed opionion.


Right now the mind pool is speical as it can't be healed.





Not true...an 0/4/0/0 Combat Medic can heal mind...as a master CM, I often use this to help out my friends in battle, i simply give time to someone being attacked by a rifleman by healing their mind






True but the point is thats not as practical as Novice Medic with uber stim b's healing 600 per pool in 1 shot.



Exactly. Also, a CM can heal mind, but this is hardly the equivalent of a health or action heal.A guildmate healed my mind twice last night while I was fighting a critter that kept attacking my mind, and he took over 600 wounds to his own mind. Yes, you can heal mind, but only a combat medic can do that, and only by taking wounds to his own mind stats, making him much less effective in his own role, and taking wounds he cannot heal without an entertainer. Conversely, Health and Action, as indicated, can be healed by anyone with Novice Medic. Thus, mind is still, for all practical purposes, unhealable in any real sense.




Sotaudi Crestlighter
Master Rifleman / Master Combat Medic
"The Physician's Pain Reference"

Former Professions
Master Doctor | Master Swordsman | Master Brawler
Master Scout | Ranger



CavemanJack
Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:50 pm
#12

Ya know.. my hang up on this is that it's strictly a PvP balancing issue. While it is something that needs to be addressed, I don't really care for PvP and prefer to hunt PvE with friends. It sounds like they're taking out attacks on the mind bar, which means swordsman and rifleman are useless unless they move our specials to hit action or health bars. I'm more worried about what's going to happen PvE with this mess... seems like the whole combat balance crap they keep talking about is directed at the PvP game with no thought to the PvE game.



Kaece Solen
Master Instigator
4344 Apprentice
Intrepid
--

The current system for hunting Jedi is nothing but sanctioned grief play.
Leadhead101
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:33 am
#13






Sotaudi wrote:










Gonzotha wrote:

This is from the publish 8 notes under the"DroidInvasion is here"feature:

http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=Publish%208%20Preview


"The second aspect of the Combat balance will be the HAM redesign. A very critical part of the overall combat rebalance is the change to the functionality of the HAM system. This change will allow a greater ease in balancing overall HAM costs for weapons and special moves. It will also allow Mind to be removed as a special damage type and place equal emphasis on Health, Action and Mind pools for both abilities and damage."


Does that mean what i think it does or amI misreading it somehow?


-Gonz





I must strongly disagree with my esteemed colleagues. Yes, as others mentioned, it is poorly worded. But I disagree that we cannot reasonably guess what they mean. The problem is that people misreading the term "special damage type," and then failing to read the whole paragraph to get the whole context.


"Special damage" does not mean "damage from specials." Mind is a "special damage type" not because it is a pool targeted specials, but because it is unhealable. Therefore, damage to the mind is handled differently than any other pool, making it a "special damage type." This is easily confirmed to be the context by reading the rest of the sentence.


It says they want to "place equal emphasis on Health, Action and Mind pools for both abilities and damage." We already know that the upcoming HAM system changes are going to make HAM costs from abilities (special attacks) unhealable on all pools by taking the HAM cost of the special from the pool maximum, no longer assessing it as damage (a lowering of the current pool value). That cost will repair itself at an accelerated rate, but because it lowers the maximum, heals (a restoring of the current pool value) will no longer repair HAM costs from abilitiesto any pool. This means that Riflemen will no longer gimped in combat because onlytheir primary HAM costs are unheable. Everyone's will be, and, thus, there will be an equal emphasis on HAM costs with regard to abilities. But they also said they want equal emphasis with regard to damage.


Now, that being the case, how can they remove mind as a "type of damage caused by specials" and not also remove "health as special damage type" and "action as a special damge type" as well. If they do not, then they could not "place equal emphasis" on all pools with regard to damage. There is no indication in that text that they are removing health and action as "types of damage done by specials," so there is no contextual reason to accept the interpretation that "special damage type" means a "type of damage done by specials." In fact, there is sufficient contextual reason to reject that interpretation.


Conversely, they cannot put equal emphasis on damage to all three pools if health and action are healable damage types, but mind remains a special,unhealable damage type. Since they are making HAM costs from abilities unhealable, the only reasonable conclusion that I can draw is that this means they are making mind healable in the upcoming patch. Thus, the change will be that costs from everyone's specials will become healable, but damage from combat will become healable on all pools. As far as I can see, that is the only reasonable interpretation of that text.








My god if they do that, then they better REALLY think hard about the ham values on weapons. I dont think they will however because I think that their real intention is not with pvp, it is with pve. They want to give all professions a serious sap in strength so that creatures that are supposed to only be able to be taken down by groups are no longer soloed by players that find the loop holes in their current system. While I sort of agree that mabee people shouldnt be able to solo rancors or nightsisters, but I dont think trying to eliminate the spamming of specials to oblivion is the way to go. When I was a blademaster, it was super fun to get jacked up on the muon with some buffs and head to endor with the pimp stick. I would grap a couple of missions and go solo some crimson blurg lairs pound of the f-keys in different orders and find some really good combos!



"Nothing would be what it is, Because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise -what it is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?"
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