Rifleman Archive

Thread: How Rifleman could be helped in PvP...

Brakiss_Wellamp
Sun May 16, 2004 6:29 pm
#1

I am a rifleman/TKM on the Naritus server. For a while now I have been kinda sore about the image of the common rifleman. I'm not really a big fan of armor, and I picture myself more like a recon sniper with hand2hand combat (That's how I roleplay at least). The image of the rifleman that I have been seeing is the composite clad-ion wielding-runningaround-close quarters shooter that has no more unique qualities to it's name than does a carbineer or pistoleer. I know that the game must be balanced for all skill types, and frankly I would be dissappointed if they made the rifleman the "uber" class because everyone would be a rifleman... That would be dumb...

So I was thinking lately about how they could make it more inticing to rifleman to stay farther out of the fray in PvP. And I came up with a boon to concealment. Somewhere along the concealment tree grant the rifleman a radar-canceling concealment. Call it Ambush... When a rifleman engages in this skill his blip dissappears from his enemies and neutral passerby's radar (unless that person comes within a set range and uncovers the sniper/rifleman). Make the rifleman harder to see on the screen as well, like have his clothing/armor coloring temporarily "chemeleon" (sp?) masked like the color of his surroundings as if he were wearing a Ghuilli suit.

This would also make the "sneak" command more useful; especially in raids on enemy faction bases. Of course, make the turrets able to detect the sniper just as a human player or NPC would, to make it fair.

I won't quit the profession if it stay the way it is, but rifleman need to get SOME love, headshot3 is worthless now and am starting to see no real reason to master it other than a lack of knowing what else to do with my skillpoints...



Kalter Eiszapfen - Teras Kasi Artist/Swordsman/Brawler - Naritus Server - Dantooine
TheDeadMeat
Sun May 16, 2004 6:36 pm
#2






Brakiss_Wellamp wrote:
I am a rifleman/TKM on the Naritus server. For a while now I have been kinda sore about the image of the common rifleman. I'm not really a big fan of armor, and I picture myself more like a recon sniper with hand2hand combat (That's how I roleplay at least). The image of the rifleman that I have been seeing is the composite clad-ion wielding-runningaround-close quarters shooter that has no more unique qualities to it's name than does a carbineer or pistoleer. I know that the game must be balanced for all skill types, and frankly I would be dissappointed if they made the rifleman the "uber" class because everyone would be a rifleman... That would be dumb...

So I was thinking lately about how they could make it more inticing to rifleman to stay farther out of the fray in PvP. And I came up with a boon to concealment. Somewhere along the concealment tree grant the rifleman a radar-canceling concealment. Call it Ambush... When a rifleman engages in this skill his blip dissappears from his enemies and neutral passerby's radar (unless that person comes within a set range and uncovers the sniper/rifleman). Make the rifleman harder to see on the screen as well, like have his clothing/armor coloring temporarily "chemeleon" (sp?) masked like the color of his surroundings as if he were wearing a Ghuilli suit.

This would also make the "sneak" command more useful; especially in raids on enemy faction bases. Of course, make the turrets able to detect the sniper just as a human player or NPC would, to make it fair.

I won't quit the profession if it stay the way it is, but rifleman need to get SOME love, headshot3 is worthless now and am starting to see no real reason to master it other than a lack of knowing what else to do with my skillpoints...






Dude, did you time travel back to last year to have these opinions on Riflemen?



I've got news for you. It's already "dumb".






KBremm SparkfistK
UToorc IcefistU
littlegut
Mon May 17, 2004 8:43 am
#3

This would also make the "sneak" command more useful; especially in raids on enemy faction bases. Of course, make the turrets able to detect the sniper just as a human player or NPC would, to make it fair.



We have a sneak command?



------------------ LAFO ----------------------------
SeismicEdge
Mon May 17, 2004 11:06 am
#4

Rifleman is HARDLY a rifleman. I was in the Army from 1977 to 1997. I shot expert every time I went. I shot the M16 A1, M16A2, M16A3, M1911 and various other weapons with decent range. I have to tell you rifleman is a joke. With the old M16A1 I could easily hit a target at 300 yards WITHOUT a scope. WITH a scope I could hit it MUCH further away. The M16A3 increased those ranges quite a lot. You know with a scope the M50 machinegun can hit a target almost a MILE away when you squeeze off a single shot?With an M1911 (pistol) I had a decent chance at hitting the target at 65 meters. That part makes sense.


Rifleman has become a close quarter weapon. What's with that? At 65 meters I have the same chance to hit the target as a pistoleer. -50. What bologna.


Rifleman should get a large increase in range if nothing else and I like the ideas given by the originator of this thread.


Bicasso
Tue May 25, 2004 11:55 pm
#5


I agree with this statement. It seems that "Riflemen" in this game are nothing but pistoleers and carbineers with a different gun. There are no unique abilities that give a Riflemen a "Ranged Advantage". Ranged advantage meaning "Distance to engage target" should be implemented at the very least. Otherwise why even have a "Riflemen" when he carries a rifle and can shoot just as far as a pistoleer/carbineer.

Devs, lets face it - customers want a Riflemen that does long distance ranged attacks at the very least.

You all have degrees - use them. Sony puts you in charge of there multi-million dollar investment called SWG and yet - you can’t meet the needs of the true riflemen upon releasing this game to the public?

Question:
"What is a riflemen without long range capabilities?"

DEVS Answer:
DEVS - YOU ANSWER IT. I don't get paid to answer your questions. I want to hear what you have to say about what makes a riflemen and im sure the public would like to know.

Make skill and damage adjustments accordingly, put them on the test server and run it. Isn’t that what a test server is for? TEST TEST TEST - CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE - REPEAT AND GET IT STRAIGHT. TRIAL AND ERROR.

Im sure all of you can reason. If you can't - why are you in the development team? Find an answer - announce it to the public, plan a project and get a goal setup with project dates in mind. Track the results and share feedback.

Bringing up case and point, even a former riflemen of our US Army has commented heavily on your creation of a "Riflemen". It is not to par and is a poor imitation to the real thing putting to shame what riflemen are all about. We pay our monthly dues on this game. We want results.

Learn from your competitors – don’t just lead the way and be naïve because you’re Sony.

Example:

The First Person Shooter market of the gaming industry has a good idea of what a rifle does. Say for instance - Halflife/Counter Strike.

1) The Game has a rifle(s).
2) There's a scope to that rifle.
3) Does it zoom? YES.

Sure - It's a different genre BUT the rifle does something a pistol and carbine can't do - and that’s using a scope for accurate and effective LONG DISTANCE shots. Sure you have scopes in SWG but it enhances numbers rather than giving an interface of a sort. Yes it works and it's not permanent and the feature is EMULATED. A poor represenation of implementing a scope's enhancements.


So here's a rough idea.


1) Scope addon and interface.
2) Scope is capable of making a rifle shoot even farther than the allowed 65m BUT the player has to manually aim to make the shot rather than to automatically aim.
How about that?? It's sketchy but it’s a start.


You’re the devs - you think it out. And don't tuck away this thread as if it was a dirty secret. Inquiring minds want to see answers posted in public in a timely fashion.


"I wanted to buy a Sony TV because Sony is quality. I saw a Sanyo TV with the same features and more.... but it's just not a Sony."




red[x]
zzSeawock
Wed May 26, 2004 9:53 am
#6

I hope one of you all is going to FanFest, these are really great points that the Devs should hear. I'll be there if none of you will ... and will endeavour to carry that water, albeit not as lucidly as you.

Your friendly neighborhood, fellow master rifleman/tkm/mbrawler.

/huzzah



__________________________
Esivau
Sunrunner's Career Drifter
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Telakyte
Wed May 26, 2004 10:06 am
#7

The Radar idea is probably out the window before it even is represented, for the same reason the Devs gave for not taking out Radar completely. Little hackor/exploiters would get programs giving them an advantage. Your "vanishing trick" wouldn't work for long, and thus all the work put into even giving us such an advantage would be wasted.


As to the "manualaim." Good idea, bad game to apply it to. I would love to see it as much as anyone else, but the Devs made this game outside the realm of FPS. Making it more so would be too close to changing its genre which the Devs decidely don't want. The problem is that when you have the concept of PVP, it's good on paper but in practice with this game's setup is rather sloppy. You'll always have the gamers want to push for a more FPS based system which allows for more skill in twitch rather than a roll of numbers.


I'd love to have twitch personally in PVP, but when it comes to sacrificing the RPG/multiworld system of Galaxies....I'll give up on my dreams for a switch. It seems it's one or the other (sadly), rather than a combination of the two (like is supposedly going to be in the SE).





"When life throws a curve ball, don't duck...you just might miss something"
Bicasso
Wed May 26, 2004 7:42 pm
#8


Telakyte wrote:

The Radar idea is probably out the window before it even is represented, for the same reason the Devs gave for not taking out Radar completely. Little hackor/exploiters would get programs giving them an advantage. Your "vanishing trick" wouldn't work for long, and thus all the work put into even giving us such an advantage would be wasted.

As to the "manualaim." Good idea, bad game to apply it to. I would love to see it as much as anyone else, but the Devs made this game outside the realm of FPS. Making it more so would be too close to changing its genre which the Devs decidely don't want. The problem is that when you have the concept of PVP, it's good on paper but in practice with this game's setup is rather sloppy. You'll always have the gamers want to push for a more FPS based system which allows for more skill in twitch rather than a roll of numbers.

I'd love to have twitch personally in PVP, but when it comes to sacrificing the RPG/multiworld system of Galaxies....I'll give up on my dreams for a switch. It seems it's one or the other (sadly), rather than a combination of the two (like is supposedly going to be in the SE).






If they can make twitch for the space addon, why not have something special that would define the riflemen by doing manual aiming for riflemen? After all twitch and riflmen go together like chocolate and peanut butter - your sucess is depended upon your skill of control besides just spamming a certain button on the keyboard - that doesn't take skill.

As for the RPG and FPS.... times change and developers will move into integrating other features from other genre's and making them hybrids. More features mean greater capacity for gamers who have never liked RPG's before. The movement has been set - why fight it? Sooner or later - some other competitor will do just that.

Case Study:
Square Soft is a success story (as we all know). They have managed to integrate twitch and rpg to co-exist in there various games that they have created. Because they have done that - they managed to capture a HUGE market share of the gaming industry and grabbing more than just a foot hold - not to mention the one of the longest running RPG franchise - the continuing series of Final Fantasy. It is now proved to be tradition. Since the conception of Final Fantasy - the franchise has continued to grow in unique features from each release and eventually integrating other ideas/themes from other games never even thought possible in the RPG world.

They broke rules and now they make them.

In essence - what's wrong with rewriting the rules of RPG's? Change is inevitable. Without change - things don't evolve to be better and we evenutally get bored.

"The greatest risk is not to risk at all."



red[x]
Galjoss
Thu May 27, 2004 2:59 am
#9

I agree with a lot of the changes suggested but as one of the more powerfull proffessions we cant ask to be given loads of improvments and not have something taken away, i think in order to remain realistic our accuracy while moving should be reduced greatly, do you think anyone could hit a target at 50 metres while running away from a target holding their rifle with one hand?
XaverriJade7
Thu May 27, 2004 3:03 am
#10






Galjoss wrote:
I agree with a lot of the changes suggested but as one of the more powerfull proffessions we cant ask to be given loads of improvments and not have something taken away, i think in order to remain realistic our accuracy while moving should be reduced greatly, do you think anyone could hit a target at 50 metres while running away from a target holding their rifle with one hand?






We only get +10 Accuracy While Moving- the least of the 3 Marksman professions. Even if we got +0 to Accuracy While Moving, I don't think it would change much.





Kezia Sunshade
RIS Certified - Master Armorsmith - 12 Exp. Pts
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zimike
Thu May 27, 2004 3:04 am
#11

Just allow Rifleman a distance of 80m,but from 80-64 you shoot rather slower,but it would be a start.



** Master Smuggler, Master Riflemen **
Galjoss
Thu May 27, 2004 6:59 am
#12

I didnt realise our accuracy while moving was so low, prehaps we should have some kind of handicap or negative base value to our accuracy while moving, I'm not asking for a nerf but i would love to see some of the idea's in this thread become a reality and that wont happen while we are as powerfull at short range and as mobile as we are now. I personaly would love to trade in my short range + kiting abilities for a 80m max range, it would create a more rifleman feeling to the game than kitting things.
Fred_Skinner
Thu May 27, 2004 7:21 am
#13






Telakyte wrote:

The Radar idea is probably out the window before it even is represented, for the same reason the Devs gave for not taking out Radar completely. Little hackor/exploiters would get programs giving them an advantage. Your "vanishing trick" wouldn't work for long, and thus all the work put into even giving us such an advantage would be wasted...snip...




It can be done. I posted a way to do this on the Ranger forums for a method to do this when a Ranger uses /conceal. The core of the method is to never send the client any packet that has your information on it.That is all handled, internally, at the server. You don't get a packet that you can hack, so no hacking is possible.


Remember when that Kimo popped up next to you that you never saw before as you went speeding by? Imagine never getting the info at all, you would have just passed by none the wiser. The effect is already there, they just have to do something creative with it.


If only the server has the info, and the client never gets it, there is NO WAY to hack it.



Frederick Skinner
Antarian Ranger, Ranger(0030), Master Rifleman, CH(4214)
Ranger is not a profession. It's a lifestyle.


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