Rifleman Archive

• breaks to easy


• currently almost impossible to enter the state




• temp fix - have a scout place a camp so that you can enter the state


• /turrets can still target at range


• /target still works vs it


• groups mates still break cover


• vehicles still counted as observers

2)Hate

• Rifleman are still the tanks of the universe




• Hate is determined by who does the most damage to a target


• Rifleman as nukers are designed to deal most damage


• Rifleman are not meant to be tanks


• Tanks need to be able to




• Increase hate on themselves in a non damage manner


• taunt more effectively

3)Nuker Status

• We obviously do the most damage as we draw hate fastest




• we are limited usage as our action costs drain us fast


• skills that help us fulfil this role are currently broken




• snipershot


• concealshot


• cover

4)SniperShot

• should be useable under cover


• still hard to impossible to use unless on perfectly flat ground




• temp fix - have a scout place a camp for you to use asa shooting platform

5) Action Costs

• many of our actions now use up to 28% of our total action bar


• this reduces our basic effectiveness to 3-4 shots

6) lack of profession definition

• to many weapons are cross cert'd - pistoleers who use exclusively rifles with no rifle skills is common now


• to many specials are useable across all professions - limit specials such as snipershot and stopping shot to their professions

Message Edited by Ackehece on 05-07-200507:08 AM

Message Edited by Ackehece on 05-07-2005 07:08 AM

Looks pretty good, in the main . . . thoughts in RED

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Ackehece wrote:

1)Cover

• breaks too easy should be a % chance related to the attack used -- Conceal, lowest; other Rifle specials, medium %; cross-profession special, automatic
• currently almost impossible to enter the state
• temp fix - have a scout place a camp so that you can enter the state
• /turrets can still target at range
• /target still works vs it this also works versus Force Cloak currently, FYI
• groups mates still break cover
• vehicles still counted as observers

2)Hate

• Rifleman are still the accidental tanks of the universe
• Hate is determined by who does the most damage to a target
• Rifleman as nukers are designed to deal most damage
• Rifleman are not meant to be tanks
• Tanks need to be able to
• Increase hate on themselves in a non damage manner
• taunt more effectively

3)Nuker Status

• We obviously do the most damage as we draw hate fastest
• we are limited usage as our action costs drain us fast
• skills that help us fulfil this role are currently broken
• snipershot
• concealshot
• cover

4)SniperShot

• should be useable under cover
• still hard to impossible to use unless on perfectly flat ground
• DPS is extremely mediocre even if it would work every time; per shot isn't the problem, over-time IS
• temp fix - have a scout place a camp for you to use asa shooting platform

5) Action Costs

• many of our actions now use up to 28% of our total action bar
• this reduces our basic effectiveness to 3-4 shots

6) lack of profession definition

• too many weapons are cross cert'd - pistoleers who use exclusively rifles with no rifle skills is common now
• too many specials are useable across all professions - limit specials such as snipershot and stopping shot to their professions Many carbine attacks say "automatic weapons only" -- so this is doable . . .

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I disagree with problem 6 on the principal that the CU seems to be based on the cross use of weapons and specials. Since I am a guy who likes to compromise could you maybe pass this suggested adjustment up to the developers, instead of just having every/most weapon/s certed:

1) To fix the everyone using rifles (and all weapons in general probably)problem, higher level rifles should be given a huge accuracypenelty and A Master Rifleperson should have their skills adjusted so that this new penelty does not effect them. Hell you could put the accuracy penelty nulifiers low in the proffession because all you really want to do is to prevent Non-Riflepersons from using a rifle all the time.

-OR-

You can do like they have with armor, non-riflepersons using a rifle get a movement penelty that being a rifleperson nulifies.

2) I really disagree on the special thing...... I don't know if I can compromise on that. There are good specials in every profession, so I don't see this as much of a problem. If a Special does become the "must have l337 special," then they should make adjustments. But really if it aint broke and it's not yet, don't fix it.

Thank You for your time.

PyscoJuggalo - notice I did not say all or even most skills and rifles. I believe that the profession needs more definition but I will take your thoughts into consideration.I will not pass on my thoughts on this unless others think the same thing. If you can figure out a way to make rifles = rifles without limiting certain actions or weapons to specific professions please give me an idea. The cross certing of weapons and all specials was a late addition to the cu to fix a problem that cropped up during testing, That being that you could not level effectively in a second profession as you would get mauled with lower level skills against the high level opponents you needed to level against. It in and of itself was not meant to be part of the CU.

as for crosscerted specials not being a problem

• 64m roots


• stacking of snares (try kneecap + the movement slow trap)


• specials from other professions doing more damage with our weapons then we do




• Non-rifleman combosusing a advanced laser rifle doing more damage then a Master Rifle Combo

Message Edited by PyscoJuggalo on 05-07-2005 02:41 AM

Whilst I do agree that most weapons do need to be given certifications beyond the basic combat level one, preferably sprinkled through the appropriate profession, I must vehemently disagree with restricting skills to only the "proper" weapons. If a pistol can "root" a target in place, then there's no reason a rifle cannot do the exact same thing. An automatic rifle is capable of spraying a large number of shots at multiple targets like a carbine, as are pistols.

Commandoes don't even get special attacks, other than those they receive due to taking their pre-requisite skills!

Even leaving aside other considerations, that should be enough of a reason to not have the restriction.

From a gameplay point of view, if I've decided to take Rifleman and Pistoleer, why should I not gain all the benefits of those two classes? In exchange, I'm giving up being a Master Bounty Hunter, or a Carbineer or any of a dozen other things that could also have given me some sort of benefit.

The restrictions on the range of weapons to differentiate between the ranged professions is enough, in my opinion. Yes, "rooting" something at 70m is an extremely powerful tool, but by rooting them with a rifle you're already likely to be paying much more from your action pool than you would have been if you'd used a pistol.

If you could do it to multiple targets in a hurry, I'd say you have a point, but it's only one target and then you've got quite a wait before stopping another target.

I'd rather see them have stopping shot work differently in PvP. The main complaints about it are coming from PvPers. It's rare for the AI to complain about it.

Ditto snipershot, concealshot, cover etc.

I'd say my biggest issue at the moment is that it's way too hard to get off Snipershot, since it has a long wind-up time and frequently "clunks" out for no apparent reason. I've mostly been grouping with others so far, and I primarily just kneel when doing so... But if Snipershot worked more consistently, that'd be great. Missing is fine, it happens sometimes. But it just breaking for no reason is not cool.

Hate management is a bit of an issue for most ranged professions at the moment. I found (whilst Pistoleer/MBH) that I could easily pull aggro if I wanted to (or wasn't careful enough)... And that was by outdamaging JEDI, plural. I find it less of an issue as a rifleman/bh, because I can knockdown on anything that goes after me, and most things don't last long under concentrated fire. But if melee professions are supposed to be "tanks", they do need to sort out a way for them to more easily generate "hate", without just giving them higher damage like they've done in the past.

As a "side" issue to this, creatures should not be "smart" enough to run away from a melee opponent to go after a ranged opponent. If anything, something hurting them as much as we do should make them FLEE, not go on the offensive. NPC type opponents, depending on their intelligence, should be able to assess a situation and do things like fire on medics when possible. But womp rats? Come on.

Last but not least, "Line of Sight" still needs tweaking. If I can see the head and torso of my target, I should at least be able to perform a headshot. I'm a Master Rifleman, I shouldn't have any trouble just because I can't see my target's waist.

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-JungleKing- wrote:
Interesting list.
I would add 2 more issues, that probably are not very popular in the rifleperson comunity, but i feel that they can fulfill better our role and can prevent some cross weapons certs listed issues.
Its very simple, i think rifle (someone equipped with a rifle) acuracy while moving is too high. If the strongest and "best" specials for rifle must be done while prone (except headshot) it have sense that the objetive (the mentioned role) of the riflemen is not move so much. So "spamming" specials while running should make the rifleman (or the marksmen with a rifle) miss more than 50% of the shots (again, with a rifle. So if a pistoler uses it root with a Laser Rifle (we all know that pistolers moves like crazy hamsters)it should be very difficult to hit the target. Another way to "fix" that issue could be putting a max range for the use of the special.
The second (and personal) issue is relative again to the accuracy. I think that in close ranges (less than 15 meters, for example)i can hit too easily my targets with a rifle. I feel like i dont need to take distance from my target because at close combat range i have the same acuracy that when im at 65m of it.
Any toughts?

And sorry for my english.

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I have never found it harder to hit something real close to me than far away, the advantage of rifles are that it is MUCH easier to hit something far away with a rifle than a psitol.

probably the most fatal mistake you can do is grab the barrel of a infantryman's rifle. When you do that, all you are doing is giving me a big &^% level to snap your arm eith, right before I shoot you.

I don't see #6 as an issue that you can put forward to the devs on the behalf of the community. And I have to disagree, even early on profession mix/match was one of the goals of the CU.

Message Edited by CraftAddict on 05-07-2005 02:08 AM

Interesting list.
I would add 2 more issues, that probably are not very popular in the rifleperson comunity, but i feel that they can fulfill better our role and can prevent some cross weapons certs listed issues.
Its very simple, i think rifle (someone equipped with a rifle) acuracy while moving is too high. If the strongest and "best" specials for rifle must be done while prone (except headshot) it have sense that the objetive (the mentioned role) of the riflemen is not move so much. So "spamming" specials while running should make the rifleman (or the marksmen with a rifle) miss more than 50% of the shots (again, with a rifle. So if a pistoler uses it root with a Laser Rifle (we all know that pistolers moves like crazy hamsters)it should be very difficult to hit the target. Another way to "fix" that issue could be putting a max range for the use of the special.
The second (and personal) issue is relative again to the accuracy. I think that in close ranges (less than 15 meters, for example)i can hit too easily my targets with a rifle. I feel like i dont need to take distance from my target because at close combat range i have the same acuracy that when im at 65m of it.
Any toughts?

And sorry for my english.

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Mogro wrote:

I was thinking about it some more, about how you would fix hate, right now it seems its all based on max damage output, which sucks. So I thought maybe a damage to proximity ratio?? But I'm not sure that would even workbecause TK is supposed to be the uber tank, but other melee proffs outdamage them, so there goes their role... I'm thinking the only way you can do it is by profession, but then you don't want mobs targetting 1 single guy in your hunting group... maybe a proximity/profession (weapon you're holding) composite scoring system + if a combatant stops attacking, the mob wil agro the next highest score (composite hate score) who IS attacking. Could get tricky...

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They realy need to just put a distance modifier to the hate system. Some thing like

hate = damage / (distance to attacker / K)

where K is a number between 10 and 15 needs to be tweaked to find the right balance.