Rifleman Archive

• Cover is hiding behind something


• cloak is making someone think you are not there


• camo/project hides your image using technology

now... AOEs are bullets being sprayed in a random pattern. hiding on the ground should give you some protection but not 100%, standing in the middle of a hail of bullets should give no protection other then a chance that the spray field was to wide so it missed the target. Mind tricks do not a bullet stop (unless they manipulate you so that you don't fire for a sec when it is aimed at them) nor does a holo projector.

my feelings are ...

• prone + invisible = 80% chance of not being hit with an aoe


• invisible but standing 50%


• invisible but kneeling 65%

Jedi mind trick on a bullet? I don't think so...

Invisibility should give NO defense vs. AoE. Cloak tricks minds into not seeing them, why would that have any effect on shrapnel or bullets?

Camouflage should give NO defense vs. AoE. Covering yourself with twigs and leaves and using vegetation for cover does NOT stop bullets or shrapnel. In fact in RL trees and vegetation become shrapnel when they explode. Camouflage is simply to disguise and NOT protect afterall, camo face paint doesn't stop bullets.

Cover, now this is a different story. Cover is the only stealth ability that should give any sort of defensive advantage as you are actually taking up a position behind some defensive terrain such as a mound of earth.

This is how I'd setup the defenses.

Invisible= No Defensive modifier to AoE. Cannot Target for direct damage.
Camo= No Defensive modifier to AoE. Cannot Target for direct damage.
Cover= 80% chance to block AoE. Can target for direct damage when visible.

Kneeling= +20% defensive modifier to all ranged attacks; +20% accuracy modifier to ranged attacks.
Prone= +40% defensive modifier to all ranged attacks; +40% accuracy modifier to ranged attacks.

To allow Jedi cloak to evade AoE is preposterous to even contemplate. The only reason I can see why this would be done is that some developers play powers/cloak Jedi.

Commandos have it hard enough as is, don't nerf their already broken AoEs.

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Ackehece wrote:

Brekkee - *Nerfed_Jedi* Will cloaked jedi be untargettable, un-followable, totally unattackable(including AOE)?
Helios - We're working on fixing all issues that would allow hidden people to be detected/targeted outside of the intended game mechanics. Currently, AOE attacks will affect all players in the area, as a weapon has no concept of what is visible and what is not.

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• Cover is hiding behind something
• cloak is making someone think you are not there
• camo/project hides your image using technology

now... AOEs are bullets being sprayed in a random pattern. hiding on the ground should give you some protection but not 100%, standing in the middle of a hail of bullets should give no protection other then a chance that the spray field was to wide so it missed the target. Mind tricks do not a bullet stop (unless they manipulate you so that you don't fire for a sec when it is aimed at them) nor does a holo projector.

my feelings are ...

• prone + invisible = 80% chance of not being hit with an aoe
• invisible but standing 50%
• invisible but kneeling 65%

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jedi are already up in arms we will still have cover shot and they dont, (you read that thread same as me, valiant attempt at replies by the way, sadly reasoning with the unreasonable is futile ), so I think any attempt at aoe defence would just target us for more nerf calls, as a rifleman/ch I am barely effective now, I cant afford many more hits to my abilities.

But in principal yes, it makes sense, however I would say in most cases you would be discovered and cover broken before you were caught in any AoE fired your way.

Message Edited by Ackehece on 09-22-2005 09:57 AM

My personal opinion is this, bombs or bullets don't care. That's why when you can't exactly pinpointpoint your target, you carpetbomb the area.

prone should offer a substantial defense vs ranged attacks anyway.

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Ackehece wrote:
prone + invisible = 80% chance of not being hit with an aoe

• invisible but standing 50%


• invisible but kneeling 65%
  
  

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Ackehece wrote:

am not saying that cover itself should be protection from a AOE - but the posture should be... prone means most bullets go whizzing over you, kneeling some do and standing practically none do, being AOE vs a invisible target you are not aiming so say 50% miss

addedum:

That means if a Ranger or Jedi is prone and invisible then they get the 80% miss rate mod

Message Edited by Ackehece on 09-22-2005 09:57 AM

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Message Edited by Darth_Spike on 09-23-2005 01:20 PM

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Phenix1050 wrote:

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Ackehece wrote:
prone + invisible = 80% chance of not being hit with an aoe

• invisible but standing 50%


• invisible but kneeling 65%
  
  

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I like! Though I might go so far as to say that cover should grant an additional bonus, perhaps complete inability to be hit by an AoE. The idea is that if the guy can't see you, he's spraying randomly. If you're behind cover, there should be little to no chance for them to hit you. As you said, holo projectors and cloak are simply messing with your visual ability to detect them. You're harder to target specifically, but if a person sprays an entire area, they might hit you.

My only other comment would be that perhaps AoE attacks shouldn't neccisarily break your concealment. If I get shot in the leg but a holo projector didn't show the blood, how would you know if you hit me?

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I did consider 100% protection for prone/cover but that would seem unfair. I do think that an AOE should hit but not break concealments after all it was a random hit with the user having no idea what they hit and where (other then a small fly text (aka: blood trail) Ever seen predator.

Setting up a reduction in the chance to hit, and the amount of damage done to a person depending on their posture is all well and good, but its mostly unrelated to the invisibility granted to Ranger and jedi. I will echo what has already been said. Bullet and shrapnel dont care that the jedi is clouding the mind. That grenade or flamethrower will hit solidly. Same for Ranger.
But, I think that there should be a reduction based on posture alone, regardless if they are invisible or not. IMO, it might be something like 20% chance to miss AND damage dealt if kneeling, and 50% if prone. ITs still gonna hurt!

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Ackehece wrote:

I did consider 100% protection for prone/cover but that would seem unfair. I do think that an AOE should hit but not break concealments after all it was a random hit with the user having no idea what they hit and where (other then a small fly text (aka: blood trail) Ever seen predator.

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