Rifleman Archive
Thread: Templates/Progression CU/R/B
Page 1 of 6
Waste93
Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:41 am
#1
This thread is forTemplate/Progression discussion and issues related to the CU/R/B. The team leader for this area of the CU/R/B is Ackehece
Ackehece
Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:47 am
#2
Posting this here as a few members could not recieve the email (Hotmail spam filters - ick!)
Installing TC
ready to test the CURB changes? you won't be doing it with that Live SWG client you're running. first step: free up some hard drive space, and install TC.
fire up your SWG client. look down in the corner... you'll see a "Test Center" button. push it. it'll do things. let it do things.
when it starts downloading patches, tell it to stop. quit.
go back to your computer and look for the "star wars galaxies" folder... if you used the default install, it'll be in C:\Program Files\StarWarsGalaxies. copy the whole thing. head over to the new C:\Program Files\StarWarsGalaxiesTestCenter folder and paste it.
make a shortcut to the SWG Test client.
fire it up again, using the Test shortcut. go nuts.
fire up your SWG client. look down in the corner... you'll see a "Test Center" button. push it. it'll do things. let it do things.
when it starts downloading patches, tell it to stop. quit.
go back to your computer and look for the "star wars galaxies" folder... if you used the default install, it'll be in C:\Program Files\StarWarsGalaxies. copy the whole thing. head over to the new C:\Program Files\StarWarsGalaxiesTestCenter folder and paste it.
make a shortcut to the SWG Test client.
fire it up again, using the Test shortcut. go nuts.
Break down of major template testing
- Combat/Combat
- Ranged/Ranged stacking
- commando
- carbineer
- BH
- pistoleer
- master marksmen
- sl
- smuggler
- commando
- Ranged/Melee stacking
- master brawler
- fencer
- pikeman
- swordsman
- tk
- master brawler
- Ranged/Creature
- Creature handler
- Ranged/Ranged stacking
- Combat/Crafting - this one will not be hard as it is basically how does rifle work pure - really only need to test one combo here unless someone disagrees
- Combat/Support
- Ranged/Doc
- Ranged/CM
- Ranged/Scout/Ranger
- Ranged/Combat - Ranged/SL
- Ranged/Doc
those are the basic templates
please if you are interested in one particular one tell me - I will attempt to do all the combat ones as well but I will assign those who like one thing or another to what they like if I can - remember you will also need to do some you do not like.
Most of our testing will occur starting next phase as the newb phase is going to take a long time to even get near rifleman.
Once we do get into the full swing of things these things arewhat we are looking at(no real tests in the beginning just overview and then specific testing if an area appears to need it):
- skillscrossover
- weapon accuracy
- weapon speed
- generic vs specific mods
- weapon accuracy
- defences
- do specials work in place of defences
- how does armor work for us
- better with or without armor
- defences from other professions make us to strong or are we to weak (keeping in mind we are to be weak defensively)
- do specials work in place of defences
- range issues
- to long of range
- to short of range
- los
- to long of range
- dps vs states
- do we have enough defences to keep our big bad nuking working or do we get 1 shot and then out for the game
- what does nuker mean
- do we effectively fill the role
- do we have enough defences to keep our big bad nuking working or do we get 1 shot and then out for the game
- Synergistic or Parasitic to our profession
- does it make us better for our primary role
- does it cover a weakness
- does it hurt our primary role
- does it not add anything
- does it make us better for our primary role
- Offensive vs Defensive stacking (this is more the pve and pvp groups responsibility)
- does a person with 2 5s in offense = a person with 2 5s in defense? Should they?
- does an even template (all mods are normalized to 6) work better then a stacked template?
- does a person with 2 5s in offense = a person with 2 5s in defense? Should they?
- Isranged/rangedgreater then
- ranged/melee
- melee/melee?
- ranged/melee
When we are testing templates if we discover a bug with another profession we ask that
- you /bug it
- you report it to members of the delegation for that profession both in the tc and on the forums.
Also if you find an exploit for our profession or for another
- /bug it
- report it toyour team lead or the proper correspondent and to TIGGS by email (mine email will be passed out to all testors in my team latter today)
- do not pass it on to others(so do NOT! post it in the forums)
welcome to the new teammembers and if you have anyquestions feel free to ask me
for now have fun and learn the system
hints!
- ctrl + clicking on an attack icon will add a check mark to to- this check mark means it is an AUTO attack and once you start combat that attack will continueally go off if you do no other attacks (USEFUL!)
- you can try all professions skills right now by using /commands. Do not do this to level but try it out and see what it does. try out /prone; /cover; /snipershot; (it will do very little damage right now but it will show you where we are headed) .
Message Edited by Ackehece on 04-02-2005 10:33 PM
Va-Mei
Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:06 am
#3
Ackehece wrote:
Combat/Crafting - this one will not be hard as it is basically how does rifle work pure - really only need to test one combo here unless someone disagrees.
I'm your man... er... Fish, if you'll have me. I'll be Weaponsmith/Riflefish for this one. Same as I've been for almost a year now.
Ackehece
Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:17 am
#4
will do va-mei but it would be best to post this in the volunteers thread ^_^ as well (coordinated testing and all)
Ackehece
Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:46 am
#5
our template group is interesting in that to fully test the templates we will have to be working closely with the PvE and PvP groups.
things we are looking at:
- skillscrossover
- weapon accuracy
- weapon speed
- generic vs specific mods
- defences
- do specials work in place of defences
- how does armor work for us
- better with or without armor
- defences from other professions make us to strong or are we to weak (keeping in mind we are to be weak defensively)
- range issues
- to long of range
- to short of range
- los
- dps vs states
- do we have enough defences to keep our big bad nuking working or do we get 1 shot and then out for the game
- what does nuker mean
- do we effectively fill the role
- Synergistic or Parasitic to our profession
- does it make us better for our primary role
- does it cover a weakness
- does it hurt our primary role
- does it not add anything
- Offensive vs Defensive stacking
- does a person with 2 5s in offense = a person with 2 5s in defense? Should they?
- does an even template (all mods are normalized to 6) work better then a stacked template?
- Isranged/rangedgreater then
- ranged/melee
- melee/melee?
- should it be? (my feeling here is yes - but this should be a point of discussion)
KundoJet
Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:01 am
#6
On that last point, Ackehece - should ranged/ranged be better than ranged/melee or melee/melee? -I think the group should be careful to keep in mind the objectives/principles the Dev Team set out for what this system change was supposed to accomplish.
One of those was a more "Star Warsy feel", and in general it was determined that this meant a focus on ranged combat over melee. As a certian notorious smuggler once said, "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Thinking back to playing Star Wars as a kid, I can't remember ever pretending to fight with a pike, or axe, or bare fisted. Star Wars to me always meant blasters or lightsabers, and of the two I honestly preferred blasters (although lightsabers had the cooler sound effects to mimic 
).
).My point through all of this is that the Devs wantedcombat to have an increased focus on ranged combat,and in this world where many (one might say most) players naturallygravitate towhatever combinations they feel are the most potent / powerful / effective / ub3r (*shudders*), that would seem to suggest that there will likely be some inherent advantages to ranged combat. Part of this may come out in the AI, as humanoid mobs will likely rely on ranged combat more, and as such will work to establish range against melee opponents. But some of this will have to come from the profession designs themselves.
Of course there will still be a place for melee skills, but we might find that pure melee characters are more rare, and really just those who prefer that style of play. If the CU works as intended, we should find the majority of combatants relying on one or more ranged professions, with other professions providing suppplemental abilities, defences, etc.
[In this vein of making things feel more like Star Wars, I am curious to see whether players' (and mobs') ability to soak damage is reduced. I can't think of a single stormtrooper in the films who didn't collapse upon receiving just one glancing blow of blaster fire, even in armour... granted, we want there to be challenge in our game, so we want our mobs to be as tough as we are (or more so). But perhaps the solution is to make it harder to hit opponents (and be hit yourself), rather than give evryone mammoth health pools... This would make it all the more important to ensure that you used a combination of skills that afforded you both high accuracy (a particular specialty of the rifle as compared to pistols or carbines), andhigh dodge (which in this scenario would be to my mind the most critical defensive ability, and which would be where Riflemen would prove especially vulnerable, barring a blending of abilities from another profession).]
Just some idle musings... I'm really looking forward to this, whether I get to take part in the Beta or have to wait until it hits live to explore the various combinations.
fattyjoker
Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:26 am
#7
kundo does have a point, and I dont remember seeing any poisons being thrown around either 
KundoJet
Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:39 am
#8
fattyjoker wrote:
kundo does have a point, and I dont remember seeing any poisons being thrown around either
Well, perhaps indirectly... the assassin worms used in EpII might be considered a poison attack... although of the Creature Handler variety!
I don't know about EU sources for Combat Medics though.
Ackehece
Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:38 pm
#9
KundoJet wrote:
Acke -
Given the kiting tactic, we might want to add a note to ensure that people are testing out whether Exploration makes a significant difference in conjunction with Rifle, in terms of enhancing survivability at various levels...
will do
but I will say this right of the bat - kiting will be uncommon occurancefor when a rifleman chooses to engage (HINT HINT HINT!).
being kited will be a little harder as well as most specials will have a windup and that windup cancels if you move....
(damn it! here in a Lecture and the TC is going up... I want to see the latest interation of the skill tree (the new one that I have not seen yet ) before I say anything more)
Ackehece
Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:47 pm
#10
KundoJet wrote:
fattyjoker wrote:
kundo does have a point, and I dont remember seeing any poisons being thrown around either
Well, perhaps indirectly... the assassin worms used in EpII might be considered a poison attack... although of the Creature Handler variety!
I would say ask the Grand Inquistor the imperial retreat what happened to his home world. It was destroyed by a engineered plague (if I remember correct for the EU sources) that was created (or so he believes) by the rebels.
though I would also like to say we should stay on topic here
we are discussing how professions work together not whether a profession has enough EU support to exist.
later on today I will start asking for what profession each of you wants to test (I know Va-mei preference already) and will create a schedule of who should test what. I will say this right of the top - each of us will be stuck testing a profession combo that we do not particularly like at some point. I ask that you bear with it and try to dig to all the little nuances that are possible.
Also on a similar note:
When we are testing templates if we discover a bug with another profession we ask that
- you /bug it
- you report it to members of the delegation for that profession both in the tc and on the forums.
Also if you find an exploit for our profession or for another
- /bug it
- report it toyour team lead or the proper correspondent and to TIGGS by email (mine email will be passed out to all testors in my team latter today)
- do not pass it on to others(so do NOT! post it in the forums)
Message Edited by Ackehece on 03-31-2005 03:57 PM
Owen-Lars
Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:52 pm
#11
Im here Ackehece, Support testing.
There are alot of rangers heading out who will be testing interaction so we should be sure the share our feedback.
A good tip would be to join RIN chat channel or something like that and monitor out skill progression thread. Lots or rangers/scouts are riflemen and i for one will be mainly a rifleman throughout testing, hope we canhelp each other
Fobok
Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:45 pm
#12
Ok, I only got onto the test server for a few hours tonight. I had to logoff to get on a live character to pick up a shipment of synthetic cloth, not realizing that there was a population cap in place. I've decided to give it some time before getting back on. In any case, I did manage to get some testing done, getting up to rifles 1 and half way to 2.
Since the testing is focusing on newbie experiences right now, there isn't much to say about templates, so I'll focus on the progression side of our focus testing. While I did find many enemies that were easy to take at pure novice before are now higher level, overall things seem to flow well. Progression seems a little faster than trying to advance without buffs on live, but far slower than people will be used to with buffs. I will note, I was only able to try solo.
After checking the cons of creatures around Mos Eisley, where I started, I went the usual route of taking missions. Unlike the 'newbie spawns', these seem to flow with the proper level. Getting to Rifles 1 took two missions and one or two random kreetle kills to succeed, giving a good feeling of advancement.
(As a side note, the CDEF rifle has the same ranges as the CDEF pistol. While the lack of minimum range is good, since at this level we have no ability to keep an opponent at range, the lack of a range bonus for the rifle may make adjusting more difficult once people progress to weapons with longer ranges, since the tactics will likely differ. Oh, and I hate the new sound of the CDEF Rifle, I must add. It sounds like something from Anarchy Online, rather than Star Wars.)
Progress towards Rifles 2 was noticibly slower, but still fast enough that a casual player would still notice progress. I do worry about the gap between Rifles 2 and 3, but hopefully upgrading weapon and combat level will upgrade what I can kill, to adjust the XP flow.
Anyway, that's all I have for now.
Since the testing is focusing on newbie experiences right now, there isn't much to say about templates, so I'll focus on the progression side of our focus testing. While I did find many enemies that were easy to take at pure novice before are now higher level, overall things seem to flow well. Progression seems a little faster than trying to advance without buffs on live, but far slower than people will be used to with buffs. I will note, I was only able to try solo.
After checking the cons of creatures around Mos Eisley, where I started, I went the usual route of taking missions. Unlike the 'newbie spawns', these seem to flow with the proper level. Getting to Rifles 1 took two missions and one or two random kreetle kills to succeed, giving a good feeling of advancement.
(As a side note, the CDEF rifle has the same ranges as the CDEF pistol. While the lack of minimum range is good, since at this level we have no ability to keep an opponent at range, the lack of a range bonus for the rifle may make adjusting more difficult once people progress to weapons with longer ranges, since the tactics will likely differ. Oh, and I hate the new sound of the CDEF Rifle, I must add. It sounds like something from Anarchy Online, rather than Star Wars.)
Progress towards Rifles 2 was noticibly slower, but still fast enough that a casual player would still notice progress. I do worry about the gap between Rifles 2 and 3, but hopefully upgrading weapon and combat level will upgrade what I can kill, to adjust the XP flow.
Anyway, that's all I have for now.
Ackehece
Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:46 am
#13
Owen-Lars wrote:
Im here Ackehece, Support testing.
There are alot of rangers heading out who will be testing interaction so we should be sure the share our feedback.
A good tip would be to join RIN chat channel or something like that and monitor out skill progression thread. Lots or rangers/scouts are riflemen and i for one will be mainly a rifleman throughout testing, hope we canhelp each other
will do Owen ^-^
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