Rifleman Archive
Thread: Bounty Hunters Eye Shot Class Defining Style? Okay then...
I know this is a topic of hot debate so I'll tread lightly here, but my honest feeling of Eye Shot in it's present form it has pretty much become the defining BH attack. Beyond all other attacks that BH's use, they seem to rely on this more than any other, some may argue that but it's all smoke and mirrors, because anyone who does any real pvsp knows this for a fact.
Though I am aMaster Rifleman I don't subscribe to the idea that weshould be the only ones able todeal mind damage, even at range. ShouldBH's have that ability? IMO sure I can live with that. Should BH's be able touse Eyeshotat the cost of thier action bar which is readily healable? Um that's a bit sketchy to me, but okay fine I'll give you that as well.
The argument that BH's deserve to be "better" because of skill point usageisgenerally going to fall on deaf ears because of the shear amount of exp folks have to grind through to get Master status in the Elite Professions. (I use the word Elite because that is what SOEcallsthem) I'm also not going to argue that as a BH you are ordained to be better than someone who specializes in a particular weapon.
Now here is something your not going to hear from many rifleman, but I'm gonna lay it out there, LEAVE EYE SHOT THE WAY IT IS.
Okay before anyone thinks I'm on crack,my suggestion to"fix"theover use of Eye Shot would be to moveitto Master Level inBounty Hunter. Because I respect what it takes to get to that level and all the arguments of skill point usagethat"limit" what other lines BH's can acquire are then validated. Don't nerf the attack,change what it takes to actually get the attack, makeit a just reward for the skill points and experience it takes to get to that level.
Agreed, someone with a "Master Bounty Hunter" tag should be the most feared character in a 1 v 1 fight, this fits with the SW lore AND the skillpoint use.
Someone with "Expert Bounty Hunter" should not be the most feared character in a 1v 1 fight. (Yes I do fear a BH with eyeshot and pistoleer more than a master BH.)
I think half of the bonuses from the pistol BH line should be moved to master as well, yes I do know this would make marks very hard, if you want that elite status you should at least have to workfor it.
It's not the master BHs that most of the complaining is about, it's the people taking 1 line then using the 230 skillpoint BS argument.
No i do not aggree Eye shot should not use action to do mind damage. And bounty hunters should not be best at combat vs a spec class at its range. The reason bounty can win is due to fact is can alternate his combat/weapon to best suit the situation. Not because he better with a pistol then a master pistoler or better with a rifle then a master rifleman.
Bounty hunter is just another elite combat class same as Pistoler rifleman Master carboneers and Commandos. When you talk aboat balance no class should be head and shoulders above others.
first of all who gave Safyn 1 star OMG you dumb ass BHs... that said
BH are not an elite profession. Read the book, ABHis a HYBRID proffesion...Being a hybrid gives you have MORE abilities and more options. Rifleman are an ELITE profession where we specialize and should be the best at what we do. As a rifleman that should be mind shots and AE attacks that we are the best in.
Hybrid classes are never as strong as the elite classes but are still significantly powerfull. In EQ the druid was the jack of all trades class and was the most powerfull class in the game (imo). BH specialize in nothing but do everything and i think thats acurate in the game...
The key is balance in this game, pistolier should win in close range of a rifleman and rifleman should win at far. The BH has the ability to target any players weakness, Rifleman being mind.... If a BH uses his brain he can compensate for his targets weakness and pray upon them...
Boo hoo you use more skill points you can KD, mind attack, health attack and have that LLC so i think your compensated for not being an elite profession...
No hang spending 200 skill points on combat skill which other classes need to take ANYWAY everyone needs some exploration. Everyone need marksman. Also takeing those skills allows you access to other skills such as CH.
Bounty hunter take more skill points BIG deal. If another player spends his skill point on combat related abilities he should be equil in a balanced system. Example a master pistoler Combat Medic or a master ranger carboner.
No a BH should be able to destroy a Master weapon smith rifleman but more because he has the abiltiy to ajust his tatics by useing a Pistol at close range where rifleman is very weak rather then spamming an over powered attack.
A lot of BH players are not even good pvpers all they do is spam eye shot or stopping shot while having a good pistol equiped. A trained monkey could do it no tatical ability no drawing the enemy into a tight area the city to use close range attacks. NOTHING, It spam eye shot or Stopping shot and throw in knock down if feeling kinky,
That is not GOOD pvp a balanced pvp system requires the players to make choices on there attacks knowing full well the enemy players can counter them. For example you use eye shot i use a cure blindness pack (cause never happen due to fact i would be dead before i could use a blind cure pack).
But fact is the elements of good tatical pvp are available. A lot of players make macros for 4 or 5 combat moves Example eye shot eye shot eye shot stim pack. Because basicly that all need hit to win they dont need to bother thinking aboat what enemy is doing .
Count abilties should be instant and cause the player useing it to lose very little Example you use knockdown i use Roll to Standing. I should not lose 300 action doing it as that ability require you actualy be thinking and reacting to your enemies attacks. As i roll to my feet i should not even lose an attack round. WHY
Cause your attack has been counted.
Someone poison you use cure poison state stim its counted a cure state stim should not be in combat que.
Healing should be in combat que simply because other wise be to easy to counter the damage done by a lot of classes.
If you still think Bounty Hunter should be better all rest the classes then i DARE you get a dev to respond and say so IT wont happen cause contray to lot of popular beleaf the game is here for all classes not just bounty hunters.
I got Idea make Rifleman Preq take scout artisan and medic novice then allow me to beat a bounty hunter by spamming headshot 2 constantly for 800 damage that a fair trade of isnt it !.
That how crazy your skill point arguement is a bounty hunter is investing in gaining some extremely usefull combat skills by taking scout (besides movement bonus) they can easyly access the CH tree and gain extremely good pets. Markman gives them bonus to carbines and pistol speed as well access to rifle mind bleed. Then of cource can take some medic and only require 20 those spare 33 points to get access to 400 to 600 damage healing stim B.
Now lets see BH get 90% the abilites most pvper want in a class. So where the big bad trade of your takeing for being superior!. You get movement speed bonuses access to wide range abilites spend a couple points you can have 6k or more ham pet. Spend 20 points can use stim b to heal 500 damage and as eye shot action can spam that till cows come home.
Sorry none that washs on me by becoming a bounty hunter you become good with all weapons that your bonues. By becomeing a rifleman you become good with a rifle from med to longrange and hopeless at short range. By becoming a master pistoler your surposed become good at close range and hopeless at long.
Get the picture other combat classes need take scout they need take marksmen
Seflyn wrote:
I'm sorry but someone who spends 200+skillpoints on combat skills, should in myopinion have an advantage over someone spending 92.Saying that,there should be a way for someone to spend more points to make their elite combat profession compete with Commandos / BHs.
This is EXACTLY why Bounty Hunters should not be the best combat profession. I am a rifleman/swordsman/medic. I have 100% of my skill points invested in combat.
Bounty Hunters, on the other hand, have 62 points invested in a non-combat profession, aka Scout.
Therefore, by your own argument, I should be stronger than a BH.
So. Why aren't I? Are my 250 points in combat skills not supposed to be as good as some BH spending 188 points on combat skills? Why is that?
Just like to SAY not ALL BH skills are combat related... And they get bonuses from their combat skills and non combat skills. For being the most flexable class in the game i dont think theyshould be the strongest in combat, just balanced. BTW the most underrated skill is exploration, that speed bonus over hills is huge if your chasing someone or running away, PC or NPC,,,
I agree with the posts above ask the devs if BHs are suposed to be stongest in PVP... IF they dont laugh at you (which they might) they will say no one is suposed to be the strongest its suposed to be all balanced...
BTW for you BHs out there, what is a rifleman totake in ananother profession to strengthen our rifle skills IF your theory of more skill points = betterthan everyone else... Many say CH butBHs can dable in CH too, plus techincaly the devssay CH isnt a combat class (LOL)...
I'm not sure I was totally clear in my initial post, I'm not saying that BH's SHOULD be anything, I'm just trying to say that if the argument is the skillpoint argument and that BH's require SOOOO many skill points to become what they become, then make it so. Make them become masters to get the "class defining" skill that has become Eye Shot.
In actuality, Lightning Cone 2 is gonna be the BH Strafe Shot2 where its overall destruction and usefullness is pretty much gonna outweigh eyeshot, much like HS3 and Strafe Shot 2. But the ease at which BH's getEyeshot is my argument. If you make it a master level ability guess what wewon't see it as much as we do today. It will make BH'sHAVE to spend those points to actually getthe skill and by all in intensive purposeses more or less eliminate a good amount of the eye shot population because truth be told not many actually aspire to that position because there isno "uber leetzor"benefit to it. If nothing else it eliminates the dabblers who can have it thier cake and eat it too.
I'm not saying they are the best and should be the best, I'm saying they seem to think it's so point intensive to be a bounty hunter, well then MAKE THEM become bounty hunters to see the benefit.
The real problem here is the devs are really afraid to nerf classes right now for whatever reason. Lets face it, this game is in an open beta and nerfs have to come (I'm talking across the board, not just this specific situation) for the sake of balance. Now the devs had a good system in place. It made sense, it worked and they never should of strayed from it:
Hit action takes action
Hit health takes health
Hit mind takes mind
Its a real simple system that works but unfortunately for whatever strange reason the devs strayed from it. I can handle the fact that pistols can hit mind, or action, or health (AND THATS A HUGE ADVANTAGE), I could handle the fact that they use less mind (proportionately) than we use. BH's should be more powerful than any single parent class due to the fact that they have the ability to attack any of their respective parents, but the current use of eyeshot is overpowered and needs to change.
There also is a current system in place to relegate the power of each respective class in the weapon certification system. In an ideal world, all specials should be created relatively equal, and the power of the weapon should be the only real difference. Tactics should reign supreme adn truth be told. its not really hard to due in teh current system. Pistoleers should have weapons producing the lowest dps due the the non existent melee penalty. Carbineers should have somewhere between 25%-50% higher than pistoleers, rifleman 25-50 better than carbineers and BH's somewhere slightly above rifleman due to their pure offensive nature and likely weapon choice forgoing their penalties.
We really dont need to be here screaming for nerfs of other classes. What we need to do is to help the devs get back on track to their original game design. All the balance is there, the systems are in place, but unfortunately everyone is focusing on specials and abilites instead of whats right in front of us.
Dev's messed up when they made the tree to get to BH. The reasons why they messed up.
1) Dev's wanted a limited number of BH's in the game so they made em have to master two classes.(remember all those BH's on the Exicutioner with Vader, why should there be a small pop of BH's)
2) Dev's wantevery BH to be like Boba Fett.(remember greedo, he got his ass handed to em by a smuggler)
How to fix the devs' mistakes
1) BH's no longer need to master marksman or scout.In marksmen all BH's have to do is get the carbine, pistol, and ranged support lines.(they don't use rifles so they don't need the line) In scout they need the Explorer and Hunting lines(they don't need animal trapping or boy scout camping skills)
2) You balance the BH so no one can handel a master BHat one on one but two masters of any combat class masters can hand him his own ass. Not sayin you got to get rid of eyeshot just make it non-spamable, but don't nerf the class without doing my other suggestions
Draxous there are two main reasons why I see people saying BH SHOULD be better than other elite combat classes.
a) Skillpoint cost, it costs far more skillpoints to get to Master BH than it does any other elite combat profession.
b) In the SW setting they are the most powerful non force using combat character.
If the devs reasoning to make BH more powerful is A there needs to be a massive boost for taking 2 elite professions, currently there is not enough difference between someone with 1 elite profession and someone with 2.
If on the other hand it's B then they need to stop dabblers in BH being so powerfull. I very much doubt if you transferedthe almighty Boba Fett into this game, you would find he wasan expert BH with some pistoleer and medic thrown in.
I'm sorry but someone who spends 200+skillpoints on combat skills, should in myopinion have an advantage over someone spending 92.Saying that,there should be a way for someone to spend more points to make their elite combat profession compete with Commandos / BHs.
While I agree that BH should need to use all their weapons to beat someone, this is an unrealistic choice given the actions of the Dev team so far. The best I feel we can hope for is they either make only master BHs powerfull, or they do something so we can use our spare points to become more effective.