Rifleman Archive

Hey all. I'm new to the boards but I've been playing a scout/rifleman/pistoleer for some time now. I'd like to ask a question that perhaps someone can answer for me.

I'm big on solo hunting, no buffs, no armour. I'm also big on going after those nice big "Looks like instant death" PvE's. Consequently I do a lot of crawling around, and am generally a very patient hunter.

My most proudest kill so far as been soloing a fambaa and a bull ronto. Sure lots of people can say they've solo'd bigger, but I'm still just a novice rifleman and keep in mind, I use no buffs or armour, just my pistol and rifle, and frankly I don't care that someone's solo'd bigger, I have my fun and that's ultimately what matters to me. But anyway to my question.

My general tactic for hunting the big K's is to crawl within optimal rifle range (61m with my current rifle) and bleed the mind out. with my current mask scent skill and depending on the CL of the creatures I'm facing I usually get 3-4 shots off before I'm detected. Now being a sniper, I'd like to get the one shot kill deals, but that's just not going to happen with these baddies (or my current rifle or for all the aspiring newbie snipers), so what I generally do is shoot once, do a /peace and watch how the creature reacts. Sometimes they'll get up and walk out of rifle range, sometimes they'll walk around looking for me, sometimes they won't do a thing. I'll wait a few moments then fire another shot off.

My idea has been that so long as the creature hasn't detected my mask scent, I should remain hidden... being a sniper and all that. But it just doesn't seem to work all the time. Now I'm not saying I should be able to fire off shot after shot after shot after shot...I shouldn't. My rifle is meant for single shooting, not to be an assault weapon. But, as the DEV's suggested we're mean to be a sniper class. So we should, with patience, be able to fire a good shoot off, remain hidden, wait for another opportunity and fire off another shot and still not be detected. This should be a slow, patient process (as snipers are meant to be) which means the impatient riflemanshould bedetected and attacked, thus necessitating good armour and buffs. But a sniper shouldn't need armour or buffs. With patience we should be able to hunt most baddies with just our rifles.

So hear's the question... is there a time limit to wait between rifle shots where you can remain undetected by creatures? If so.. what's the time to wait (TTW) or the formula for figuring it out? My preliminary study suggests that there is a TTW but it is extraordinarily long (in the range of >4 minutes). Has anyone else tried to find this, or am I just imagining this magic Time To Wait period?

I'm going to start amore throurough testing of my idea. In the meantime, I'd appreciate any input on this.

If you use conceal shot, the TTW approaches infinity.

---dood---

Does it approach infinity or zero? I've never tried conceal shot, but it would seem to suggest that TTW~ 0, not infinity.

There a limited number of shots you can do before the creature locates you. Once located, he will not forget about you, but he might not attack unless you fire an additional shot.

My favorite tactic to use before master rifles and conceal shot was to go prone, fire 3 headshot 2's, stand up, then fire 2 suppresion fires, this will get you two more head shots if suppression fire sticks. If the suppression fire fails then start runningwhile shooting headshot2. You should get some light armor like voritor enhanced bone armor or mabari to reduce kinetic attacks. The armor is in the game to be used, take advantage of it.

Well, by your above definition of TTW, it would be infinity, meaning you will always remain undetected by creatures. TTW is very loosly defined though in your post.

---dood---

hi

it depends on few things, i dont think its a time thing but i did notice some stuff.

1. your rifle may still cause wounds in which case you will be detected, that is teh wound % of teh weapon and the 1 point insta wound which will cause mob to find you.

2. distance makes a huge difference it seems. if a mob is less then 40m you are about 25-50% likely to get detected. if its at 50-64 you are almost never going to get detected. if under 30 then you will be 90% of teh time detected.

3. take cover ability seems to add to conceal rate.

4. stop every 10-20 shots and hiot the clear/peace button and wait one round before restarting. this will reset any timers.

5. mob level AND mob type matters. for example: rancor, enraged rancor and mutant rancor. the mutant rancor is about 3-4 times as likely to detect you as a regular rancor and twice as likely as enraged rancor.

likewise with mob types, for example, NS Elder will detect you after about 10-20 shots no matter what, while a mutant rancor or krayt will not.

so there you have it. have fun.

Thanks Pire... I had no idea causing a wound = instant aggro. hmmm... is therea way to purposely lower the wound % ona rifle?

I would be VERY surprised if wounds are what causes them to aggro....just my opinion though.

---dood---

It takes me some time, but I always solo NS and mountain singer clan caves with no armor, no buffs, vasarian brandy (for my mind costs), and conceal shot. I just crawl til I get in optimal range, then snipe away. Its fun for me because I like the whole sniper thing, but sometimes I just want to go and mess stuff up so thats why I got swordsman, lol. But yea, at master rifleman, conceal shot is great.

Basically, what you are wanting is Concealshot, but a couple of things need to be cleared up.

Concealment Chance was an ability they added to give us a better chance of single pulling a Mob from within a social group. That is, it does not make it harder for the creature you are shooting to detect you. It makes it less likely that his friends will come when he does aggro on you.

/TakeCover adds to your ranged defenses. It does not affect your Concealment Chance nor make you harder to detect. It does not even do that much for you on ranged defenses, and does nothing for you against melee, so most people give up on it early. That is, TakeCover = Harder to Hit, not harder to see. The fact that you have to be prone when in cover is what makes you harder to see.

The basics of the way aggros work are as follows. Note, this is not an exhaustive explanation, so it is somewhat simplified, but it explains the mechanics. Creatures and NPCs attack you when they are aware of you and you are considered an enemy. But this basically works off of the TEF (temporary enemy flag) system. Yes, even creatures can give you a TEF. Aggressive Creatures and NPCs for which you have high negative faction (excluding factional enemies) will automatically give you a TEF as soon as you are within detection range. Non-Aggressives, factional enemies, and NPCs for which you do not have high negative faction will not give you a TEF until you attack them.

But having a TEF does not automatically mean you are attacked. You have to be detected. The more aggressive the enemy, the easier it is for them to detect you. By contrast, you have means of decreasing your detection. The further you are from your target, the harder it is for them to see you. The lower your posture the harder it is for them to see you. So you are easiest to detect standing and within 40m and hardest to detect prone at 60 - 64m. The harder it is to detect you, the longer it will take them to aggro on you.

When you shoot a creature, your detection chance goes up. But there is a time element involved. This is why at Novice you get off about 3 shots before you are detected, but at Master you can get off 6 shots before you are detected. Basically, it appears that, when you shoot them, a timer starts. If you shoot them after the timer expires, they will automatically aggro. There is a cool down period, but it is too long to take advantage of.

These are the same mechanics for everyone.

Riflemen, on the other hand, do have a choice that none of the other professions have, Concealshot. Concealshot does not make you harder to detect or prevent them from giving you a TEF.All it does is prevent them from aggroing on you becauseof Concealshot. In other words, you will still pickup a TEF. You will still need to be as far away as is practical and have as low of posture as you can, but when you shoot them withConcealshot, they will not aggro on you unless 1) they wander close enough to detect you, 2) you miss twice, or 3) you give them a random bleed. In other words, if they detect you for some other reason,the "conceal" will break and they will aggro on you.

To optimize concealshot, go prone at about 65m. Crawl to 60m or so. If your ideal range is closer, then get closer, but do not get any closer than 50m if you can help it. Start firing Concealshots stopping only when you miss (two misses will cause an automatic detection) or when you start running out of HAM (usually Mind). You can use /Aim if you have to reduce the chance of missing. If the creature starts wandering close to you, stop shooting, and crawl back out to a safer range. Watch for random bleeds. Everyone has a chance of creating a small random bleed when they shoot a creature even if you do not use a bleed shot. I personally believe this has to do with the wound chance (the "Stategy Guide" seems to link wounds and the chance to bleed, although this phenomenon did not show up until around December/January). If you give them a bleed, when the bleed ticks off, they will automatically aggro, even if you are using Concealshot. So watch their status bar. If a bleed icon shows up, prepare for them to aggro.

The key things to remember are that posture and distance affect detection. Concealment Chance only affects whether or not social mobs will group attack, and /TakeCover only helps your ranged defenses.

Just for the records, I've used Concealshot on several NPC's at less than 10m and they never saw me.

Rifleman

4-2-4-3

they do. i have been rifleman since launch. it is my main prof and i have had opprtunity to test and confirm this many many many times.

BTW just so you know, there are some things in game that conceal doesnt work at all on, such as AT-STs and other high end targets.