Rifleman Archive
Thread: TC: Damage Mitigration and HAM Costs
After looking at several other forums, I've learned several new things about the new TC changes.
First Damage mitigration, It seems this might not be as good as it sounds. What it does is reduce the difference between the Max damage of a weapon and the min damage of a weapon. This has a large effect on weapons with large spreads in damage, like our laser rifle. Heres an example: take a 30-360 laser rifle. The difference between the min and max is 330 damage. Mitigration 3 lowers this 60%. (.4*330 = 132). So against a Master elite ranged player, the damage of this rifle would be 30-162. This would definatly knock laser into second place compared to a T-21.
Next, HAM costs. I've seen the 25 seconds to regenerate talked about, but I did not quite get it until I saw it explained on the fencer board. Once you use a special, it takes 25 seconds FROM THAT moment to get the HAM costs back. For each additional specail, it starts removes the HAM and starts giving the HAM back for the new special at 25 seconds (the first special is still giving back it's HAM)
Example: Rifleman shooting 1 per second, 100 mind costs
Mind:0 modifier (1000 mind)
Mindreturned Per second: 0
1st shot:100 mind cost, time: 0
Mind: -100 modifier (900 mind)
mind returned per second: 4 (100mind/25 second = 4 mind per second)
2nd shot: 100 mind cost, time: 1s since first shot
Mind: -196 modifer (804 mind). (got 4 mind back form first shot)
Mind returned per second: 8 (4 from 1st shot (24 returns left), 4 from 2nd shot (25 left)
3rd shot: 100 mind costs, time 2s since 1st shot
Mind: -288 modifier (712 mind). (got8 mind back, 1st and 2nd shot, and lost 100 on shot 3)
Mind returned per second: 12 (4-1st shot, 4-2nd shot, 4-3rd shot)
4th shot: 100 mind costs, time: 3s since 1st shot
Mind: -376 modifier (624 mind) (got 12 back from the previous shots, and lost 100)
Mind returned per second: 16
Skip to 10th shot: 100 mind costs: time 9s since 1st shot
Mind: -820 modifier (180 mind)
Mind returned per second: 40 (15 '4 point seconds' left to return the Mnid of shot 1)
Hmm, since I just did these figures, going to have to try this out with some different Mind costs and attack rates.
--Rorrimot
PS. I got most of this info from the fencers forum, posted by their corespondant. From the way he talked about the way these worked, it sounded like he got the info from a dev.
PPS. REMEMBER, this is just a rough change, it is not complete, and will change ALOT if it even goes to live.
meyer1215 wrote:
For each additional specail, it starts removes the HAM and starts giving the HAM back for the new special at 25 seconds (the first special is still giving back it's HAM)
Should have reread before posting. NEED AN EDIT BUTTON. This should say, For each additional special, starts a new return of1/25HAM costper second after it is used for 25 seconds. (this does not stop any previous ham returns that are already occuring. Each second, all the ham costs being added back to HAM isreturned together. Here is an example.
--Rorrimot
And I can migrate all my Zabrak willpower to health, cause it won't do me any good unless I get hit in my mind-pool?
are you rifle men not paying attention , this is really gonna hurt us the most!!!! mitigation is super effictive rifle nerf!!!
we will never one shot again! and the galaxies with no T21!!!! omg the difference is that the laser rifles has a huge gap between the max and min damage... what other weapons do?
maybe carbines...
mitigation will really hurt us badly.....
this is gonna take away liek 60% of our damamge against pc...
riflemen wake up and read about the mitigation issues, and find out!!! we lost conceal shot already, now we are about to lose most of our damage...
cmon people wake up... we need to get together. figure out what is happening, and make sure its a fair change ...
not just say" well lets see what happens then go from there"...
vysxi
So .. regeneration of HAM from special moves will be completely independant of the regeneration stats?
That seems .. like a relatively horrid idea.
Is HAM usage still effected by focus/etc.?
I just applied the level 3 Damage mitigation to my T-21
My max damage drops from 352 to 213, my that sucks.
Calvines, this is just the a rough phase 1. It only works for weapon costs and has a set 25 sec recharge rate. The devs have stated that they are not sure if this will make it to live. ANd if it does, it will be changed some more. I'm sure that if this is the direction they go, they will tie willpower to change the 25 second amount somehow.
After looking at the costs some more, I think the costs to continiously use a special (for more than 25 shots)l are:
(Cost of attack * 25 )/ (2 * speed of attack).
So for a 100 Ham cost attack at once per second, the worst modifier you would getis:(100 * 25)/(2*1) = 1250. This is what your modifier costs would be after 25 seconds. Afther that your modifer SHOULD NOT CHANGE. YOu would be using 100 HAM, but you would be getting back 1/25 of the pervious 25 shots which would give you back 100 HAM. So No costs. (The 1250 might change+/- 100 for less than a second if the +100 and -100 are not added togehter before adding to the modifier.)
If they keep the mitigration in, maybewecan get them to increase theT-21's min. Mabye get it to the 200-300 range for the min.
--Rorrimot
Meyer you Friggin Evil Devil Genius.
If we can't have the Pre-nerf T21 maybe we can con them into giving us much better minimun damage on the T-21.
Great Idea Meyer you get a cookie
meyer1215 wrote:Calvines, this is just the a rough phase 1. It only works for weapon costs and has a set 25 sec recharge rate. The devs have stated that they are not sure if this will make it to live. And if it does, it will be changed some more.
Well, then again I have to raise the question: Are there any Rifleman on TestCenter at all? Masters I mean? I sitll don't get how the devs pretend that stuff gets tested there when the professions, skills and items are simply not around...
I've noticed a huge increase in new players who just wanted to look at the new bikes, but there is very little higher stuff, (on tat from what I can tell). I expect alot more people will begin to use TC once it the player copy is added. (The command is already there on TC, but the live servers are notsetup to copy the character yet.)
Once it works, I expect a few people who have their character completed and wont change it much, will copy it over to always keep an eye out on what future changes happen. It should be much easier to see differences between live and TC once you can play near identical characters on both.
--Rorrimot
omg no one is worried about mitigation? on Tarquinas we have no T21 the minum damage on my best gun is like 60 something!!!! that means that i am losing more than half of my guns power against anyone holding a freaking gun!!! this is insane....
hello is anyone paying attention???
oh yea thanks for the 1 star too....
You would lose most of your damage against a MASTER ranged elite, only masters can get level 3. level 2 is fairly easy to get, but that is only a 40% drop.
--Rorrimot
If mitigation hits PVE too, Rifleman will be 10 timesharder to master.
I'm glad I'm one box away from master now