Ranger Archive

I was looking at the new icons on the CU interface, not the gaudy coloured ones, but the one that shows next to your name. Now, its not an indicator of your profession but an indicator of your function/preferred role in a group.

So you can be ranged, melee, healing, entertainer, utility or crafter.

Using those roles, I was trying to work out the 'ideal' group dynamic for hunting post CU and wondering if its going to be possible to build groups that are strong enough to take on the bigger targets on adventure planets.

I don't want to get bogged down in math here, or in too detailed a discussion of the merits of each profession as we still don't know nearly enough about the Elite profs, but am just trying to stimulate a bit of thinking ahead.

(There is also an entire other issue to do with solo hunters but again, am going to stick to just groups for now)

Okay, first things first, you are going to need damage dealers. They are going to be either ranged or melee combat elite (for the armour and health benefits) and function both as the killing front of the group and as a meat wall to protect the rest of the team.

From what we've seen in test one successful strategy seems to be to close to range for your riflemen, let them shoot one critter and allow it to charge the group this leaving the pod. Once it closes on the group the melee profs step in and start whacking it hard, the ranged profs move back slightly out of harms way. The longer ranged weapons being covered in movement by the short and medium ranged.

As Rangers we will have some combat skills alongside our Ranger prof, so we do still have a function here.

Medics can work around the fighters, keeping them healed. Any non-combat profs that are along should be watching for sneak attacks from any nearby aggro MoB.

Once the prey is down, all those with harvest skills move on it at the same time and harvest, gaining group bonuses as appropriate form the groups skill base.


Would this work if you had a group composed only of Scout/Rangers with one combat prof? So long as there's a medic in there (to allow healing without having to break from combat) I think it probably would.


What about a group of multiple combat elite with some scout harvest abilities? Obviously they'll be able to kill much faster and also target harder kills, but the lower harvest skill should offset that somewhat.

One thing I have noticed in groups this week is, especially with the much smaller size, coordination and cooperation is essential. If there has to be one tactic, it has to be explained beforehand. If the group is going to draw one critter out at a time... make sure everyone knows which critter. Useful way to do this is have one person (one of the lower skiled players so not too much damage done and they get a definite share of XP) 'designate' the target by firing at it until it charges the group. Usually pretty obvious by then which one we're after

The group leader should be coordinating their team and making sure people are kept informed of targets, tactics, etc.

I don't know if group sizes will be kept small (currently at 8 on TC5) but if they do, people are going to have to hink much more about the composition of the group, be less able to carry 'passengers' who are just along for a bit of easy XP and, using the roles from the tags, are probably going to have to think more in terms of squad tactics than the current free for all blastfests.

Sounds like everyone is buying to the "new roles". Those are the roles you should be taking with those profs in live 90% of the time any way.

You just described the method I use with groups that will listen all the time on live. It works great, I don't see how the CU has don't any thing to make it work better.

What has changed is a ## level creature will do less damage to any member of your group the higher level you group is. That is going to mess every thing up for the non guilded types. Like me.

Yup the 8 players groups could turn out baaad...

Or would you take someone heavily gimped into your group ( a master ranger) if you might as well take someone with you who is of some use?

I personally do not worry too much about the grouping issue, as I will as of current plans fill three needed roles post curb (tank with a tkm-based meleer and a few scout skills, a doc/cm/pistoleer 4000, a "mezzer" - smuggler, pistoleer, bh 0040) I doubt I'll have a hard time finding a group for stuff even *IF* I have to look outguild (which is quite unlikely).

If you could have groups bigger than that you would be inflating you combat level to a point that almost nothing would be doing much damage to you. Higher combat rating = less damage. I'm not talking about mitigation or defences I mean the criters damage output drops. I wish I could find the post that revels the system that someone exposed through some careful experementing. I'll keep looking, more info should be forth coming anyway.

It also kinda kills solo groups.

No the higher your level gets less damage will be dealt to you by a criter of a given level.

Criter is Level 30. When you are level 10 it rolls higher damage against you than it does when you are level 40. This is outside of armor, defences, and mitigations.

The details are schetchy at best but you can always test it out a bit your self when TC comes up. Maybe its not realy there? There is a lot we don't understand at all about this system yet. There is a lot of room to be wrong.

It does match up with what I saw going from Marksman to Novice Rifles. The same critters just hit me for less damage. I though it was just my defences... it looks like it might have been more the big jump in combat level.

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agent156 wrote:
No the higher your level gets less damage will be dealt to you by a criter of a given level.

Criter is Level 30. When you are level 10 it rolls higher damage against you than it does when you are level 40. This is outside of armor, defences, and mitigations.

The details are schetchy at best but you can always test it out a bit your self when TC comes up. Maybe its not realy there? There is a lot we don't understand at all about this system yet. There is a lot of room to be wrong.

It does match up with what I saw going from Marksman to Novice Rifles. The same critters just hit me for less damage. I though it was just my defences... it looks like it might have been more the big jump in combat level.

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Oh this sounds just great!

Should I assume that scout and ranger do not count as combat classes, not only do we have this massive SP sink, we now also have less health due to our profession choice as well as the fact the critters now hit us for more damage as our combat lvl isnt as high as others.

I have less health and take more damage = I die a lot!

We hope not... but that might be how it works.

I still have to test it yet my self. And this might just be for group increased combat level or some such thing. Or I could be some other system kicking in that makes it seem like this is going on.

The thread that made me aware or this seems to have gone away...

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agent156 wrote:
No the higher your level gets less damage will be dealt to you by a criter of a given level.

Criter is Level 30. When you are level 10 it rolls higher damage against you than it does when you are level 40. This is outside of armor, defences, and mitigations.

The details are schetchy at best but you can always test it out a bit your self when TC comes up. Maybe its not realy there? There is a lot we don't understand at all about this system yet. There is a lot of room to be wrong.

It does match up with what I saw going from Marksman to Novice Rifles. The same critters just hit me for less damage. I though it was just my defences... it looks like it might have been more the big jump in combat level.

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I'm not sure if that's true and needs to be testing.

But as a coder of an old MUD (yes, telnet based) that's just plain ridicilous.

Something has a certain attack rating and damage rating, which should be independend of target.

Numbers:

Creature X (level 5) has Base Damage 50, with some rolls depending which attack it does it should vary from -5 to +5

Creature Y (level 20) has Base Damage 200, from -15 to +10

Now player A (level 1, assume no armor, migitation) attacks X and should receive damage ranging from 45 to 55

Now player A (same) attacks Y and should receive damage ranging from 185 to 210

Player B (level 15, no armor, migitation) attacks X should ALSO receive damage from 45 to 55

Player B (same) attacks Y should again ALSO receice damage ranging from 185 to 210.

Anything else is just ridicilous. Player A would likely be killed faster by Y (cause of his low leve, less health, less offensive/defensive mods), while player B would be able to withstand Y and maybe even win.

Balancing is just a few things: Creature X will be able to hit A more often then B cause of a lack of defensive skills on A. A otoh will hit X likely more often then Y for the same reasons. Creature Y however will have no problems overcoming A's defenses (all attacks hit) therefore A will be very likely killed, cause A will have a hard time hitting Y.

For you who want to know more: go read about it in ADnD books: thac0, damage rolls, attack rolls...

THAT's balancing things out. If things are SCALED depending on group, it's just plainly ridicilous.

I hope to be able to test it soon...

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Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:

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agent156 wrote:
No the higher your level gets less damage will be dealt to you by a criter of a given level.

Criter is Level 30. When you are level 10 it rolls higher damage against you than it does when you are level 40. This is outside of armor, defences, and mitigations.

The details are schetchy at best but you can always test it out a bit your self when TC comes up. Maybe its not realy there? There is a lot we don't understand at all about this system yet. There is a lot of room to be wrong.

It does match up with what I saw going from Marksman to Novice Rifles. The same critters just hit me for less damage. I though it was just my defences... it looks like it might have been more the big jump in combat level.

---

I'm not sure if that's true and needs to be testing.

But as a coder of an old MUD (yes, telnet based) that's just plain ridicilous.

Something has a certain attack rating and damage rating, which should be independend of target.

Numbers:

Creature X (level 5) has Base Damage 50, with some rolls depending which attack it does it should vary from -5 to +5

Creature Y (level 20) has Base Damage 200, from -15 to +10

Now player A (level 1, assume no armor, migitation) attacks X and should receive damage ranging from 45 to 55

Now player A (same) attacks Y and should receive damage ranging from 185 to 210

Player B (level 15, no armor, migitation) attacks X should ALSO receive damage from 45 to 55

Player B (same) attacks Y should again ALSO receice damage ranging from 185 to 210.

Anything else is just ridicilous. Player A would likely be killed faster by Y (cause of his low leve, less health, less offensive/defensive mods), while player B would be able to withstand Y and maybe even win.

Balancing is just a few things: Creature X will be able to hit A more often then B cause of a lack of defensive skills on A. A otoh will hit X likely more often then Y for the same reasons. Creature Y however will have no problems overcoming A's defenses (all attacks hit) therefore A will be very likely killed, cause A will have a hard time hitting Y.

For you who want to know more: go read about it in ADnD books: thac0, damage rolls, attack rolls...

THAT's balancing things out. If things are SCALED depending on group, it's just plainly ridicilous.

I hope to be able to test it soon...

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You might havde coded MUDs and you're right in regards to it no making any sense but the system on Test now, is how it works in any other MMORPG.

The fact that levels in SWG used to be nothing more than numbers deciding how much XP and Credits you got was one of the things that made SWG unique.

That's gone now. SWG is now a fully fledged level-based MMORPG, but it's a damn horrible one since the rest of the game wasn't designed for it. SWG is a skill based game, kinda, so what we're getting now isn't the best of both worlds, it's the worst.

This is how it's going to be folks. It's part of the "upgrade" which is short for applying a generic MMORPG combat system deisgn a la EQ2, DAoC, WoW, CoH etc.

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Oculus wrote:

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Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:

I'm not sure if that's true and needs to be testing.

But as a coder of an old MUD (yes, telnet based) that's just plain ridicilous.

Something has a certain attack rating and damage rating, which should be independend of target.

Numbers:

Creature X (level 5) has Base Damage 50, with some rolls depending which attack it does it should vary from -5 to +5

Creature Y (level 20) has Base Damage 200, from -15 to +10

Now player A (level 1, assume no armor, migitation) attacks X and should receive damage ranging from 45 to 55

Now player A (same) attacks Y and should receive damage ranging from 185 to 210

Player B (level 15, no armor, migitation) attacks X should ALSO receive damage from 45 to 55

Player B (same) attacks Y should again ALSO receice damage ranging from 185 to 210.

Anything else is just ridicilous. Player A would likely be killed faster by Y (cause of his low leve, less health, less offensive/defensive mods), while player B would be able to withstand Y and maybe even win.

Balancing is just a few things: Creature X will be able to hit A more often then B cause of a lack of defensive skills on A. A otoh will hit X likely more often then Y for the same reasons. Creature Y however will have no problems overcoming A's defenses (all attacks hit) therefore A will be very likely killed, cause A will have a hard time hitting Y.

For you who want to know more: go read about it in ADnD books: thac0, damage rolls, attack rolls...

THAT's balancing things out. If things are SCALED depending on group, it's just plainly ridicilous.

I hope to be able to test it soon...

---

You might havde coded MUDs and you're right in regards to it no making any sense but the system on Test now, is how it works in any other MMORPG.

The fact that levels in SWG used to be nothing more than numbers deciding how much XP and Credits you got was one of the things that made SWG unique.

That's gone now. SWG is now a fully fledged level-based MMORPG, but it's a damn horrible one since the rest of the game wasn't designed for it. SWG is a skill based game, kinda, so what we're getting now isn't the best of both worlds, it's the worst.

This is how it's going to be folks. It's part of the "upgrade" which is short for applying a generic MMORPG combat system deisgn a la EQ2, DAoC, WoW, CoH etc.

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Ah well, that explains why I don't play any of them, except for SWG... still....

Guess SWG will end the same way for me then

BTW: A Mud is an MORPG too, there should not be much difference in the core between an MMORPG and a MORPG. Level based gaming =more like diablo, diablo2 and so on. It doesn't fit SWG.