Ranger Archive

Hey All,

I need someone to give me the actually harvesting numbers to prove this.

For a master scout you spend 77 skill points for 55 creature harvesting. This is a ratio of 1.4 skill point for 1 point of Creature harvesting.

For a master ranger, you spend 140 skill points for 100 creature harvesting. This is still a ratio of 1.4.

Now, master ranger is only 45 more creature harvesting points, but you only spend 63 more skill points to get it. 63 points out of the 140 skill points needed for master ranger is only 45%. And this is the 45 extra creature harvesting that you get.

Therefore, master rangers should only be able to harvest 45% more than a master scout. I dont have any numbers for this, so I dont know if this is the case. If anyone can do this, it would be great!

If in fact, master rangers are not harvesting 45% more than master scouts, then we have a problem. If we are harvesting 45% more, then we are ok, and dont have anything to complain about!

Novice Rifleman start at a speed skill of 20 and end at 90, a +350% increase. Yes, we do have something to complain about.

Well for starters:

• Why should thebenefitsgained from the ranger tree be equal to that of the scout profession because of skill point usage, bearing in mind scoutis a starting profession?

By that assumption MasterMedics should be able to treat woundsat 50% effectiveness of a master doctor, when infact they can only manage5%.

• IMO skillpoint usage is irrelevent in calculatingharvest modsor at a push is only one of many factors you need to consider in working out how much we SHOULD be able to harvest over a master scout.

Ranger is an ELITE profession and you take your elite profession to advance in certain areas and instead of lightly covering in certain subject areas you become a master in specific subject areas (i.e. harvesting). What i mean by this is, when doing scout you cover many areas to a basic degree, you learn skills that will help you, when you learn ranger you are dedicating your learning to specialise in the areas you have previously covered. The advancement of rangers over scout in reagards to harvesting levels can't simply be brought down to how many skill points you invest. By picking up ranger you have dedicated your character to being a ranger and mostly likely a professional hunter, a pro hunter imo would be far far superior to that of a scout who has only covered the subject areas briefly.

Like i mensioned b4, skill points has nothing to do or very little to do with working out how much of a certain skill mod you get. Following on from the medic vs doc example, if we carried this over to us we would have 1100 harvesting skill mod compared to the master scouts 55 points!!Im not saying docs dont deserve these advantages over their starting profession, infact quiet the opposite. They deserve them because they have choosen to specialise in the area and have dedicated a large portion of their character's set up to that end (not skill point usage,rather play style)

OH and yeah 30% bonus over master scout is the current level and this is way off what i think it should be.

Your example of the medic vs doctor isnt a good one. the big differences in what you are talking about from medic to doctor is only in wound treatment speed and medicine use.

Doctors can use better stim packs and such. Again, I dont know how the medic ability works. But a master medic already has +100 injury treatment. So, in theory, they should be just as effective in using the same Stim A or B as a master doctor. The big difference is that Docs can use better stim packs that the master medics cant because of the medicine use. The master docs spent the skill points to use better medicine to treat more effectively.

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BntyHntr77 wrote:
Your example of the medic vs doctor isnt a good one. the big differences in what you are talking about from medic to doctor is only in wound treatment speed and medicine use.

Doctors can use better stim packs and such. Again, I dont know how the medic ability works. But a master medic already has +100 injury treatment. So, in theory, they should be just as effective in using the same Stim A or B as a master doctor. The big difference is that Docs can use better stim packs that the master medics cant because of the medicine use. The master docs spent the skill points to use better medicine to treat more effectively.

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Exactly. Where we, the Rangers, see very little climb in the productivity of our skill awards. Going from field base to High tech field base is clearly a jump in graphical standard, but there is no new practical application between the two. Well, a tiny increase in the healing rate, but not signifcant enough to justify the points, time, cost in resources, etc.

Exactly!! The medics are using tools to improve their treatment ability!!

All we are doing is improving the how we harvest. There is no better tool or device that we can use with Ranger to get more meat.

If they had a harvesting tool that we could use, then yes, we have a case. But we dont, we use our bare hands to get the meat. We do learn more techniques as we improve to get more meat, but no tool.

I think Im confusing in my logic here, but I hope you understand what Im getting at. Its the doctors ability to use better stims that makes it worthwhile. Rangers dont have a harvesting tool to improve on, just techniques.

We do need a bump, I am definitley for that! But if we harvesting 45% more than master scouts, then nthing can be done.

Besides, you don't spend 63 more points to get better harvesting. You spend the points for better everything. If all you want is harvesting, go up the tracking tree and spend 20 points. Why try to figure out all the mathematical equations behind the game to see if we're balanced? It's a game, nothing more. Play it to have fun or don't. But when you start to take it too seriously, that's when you lose your grasp on reality. And who really wants to be an Evercracker who commits suicide because their Elf Ranger just died? My point? It's just a game, so enjoy.

Mmm... Evercrack...

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BntyHntr77 wrote:

Now, master ranger is only 45 more creature harvesting points, but you only spend 63 more skill points to get it. 63 points out of the 140 skill points needed for master ranger is only 45%. And this is the 45 extra creature harvesting that you get.

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I think the general consesus is we have a 30% increase in harvest quantity. It's been posted and broken down before, you can search around for it I'm sure.

I strongly disagree, however, that if we get a 45% increase over Master Scout we somehow have no leg to stand on in desiring more bang for our buck. We're an *ELITE* profession, for crying out loud. We're not supposed to be just Scout v2.0 (props to whoever first came up with that, btw).

You mentioned Master Doctor vs. Master Medic - the difference between a master of both these professions is astounding. Now take that same comparison and do it with Master Scout vs. Master Ranger. What are the differences? This has been brought up over and over again.

Wayfaring:
1) Crawl faster.
2) Camo which can be used on others.

Frontiering:
1) Additional camps.
2) Better foraging.

Tracking:
1) Harvestmore.
2) More info when examining.
3) Creature to-hit bonus.
4) Areatrack.

Adv Trapping:
1) Rescue.
2) Two area affect traps.

That's the short list. Here's my take on this:

Wayfaring:
1) We can crawl faster than your average serpent, which is nice for Riflemen who like to use Conceal Shot.
2) We can grub around for planet specific resources, waste them along with time & effort on making camo kits which arguably don't do much good. I say arguably because my group was no more effective with camo than without it. And not using it sure saved me a lot of headache trying to keep tabs on camo breaking - this gets outta hand quick in a large, fast-moving group!

Frontiering:
1) Our camps are pure and simple eye candy. My favorite comments from people who saw the HTFB for the first time were "Oh, that's bigger than my house!" and "Nice camp, but why is the rain coming through the top?"
2) Foraging is a joke, plain and simple. The only use I can see for this is to get bait for fishing. But Scouts get this also, so that's really no argument.

Tracking:
1) A Master Ranger, all other things being equal, harvests about 30% more than a Master Scout. Most people on this forum think that number is too low. I agree.
2) More info when examinging is useful the first few times you see a new creature. But the novelty wears off after you play the game for almost a year - you should know by heart what creatures can do. Personally, a lot more information should be given a Master Ranger under this field. There's *nothing* they shouldn't know about a natural creature at Master level.
3) To-hit bonus is ranged only, which is nice if you use a gun, but sucks for the Rangers who choose a melee profession.
4) Areatrack has bugs (terrain/range holes) and severe limitations because of the way the dynamic spawn system works. There are numerous posts concerning these shortcomings.

Adv Trapping:
1) Rescue is the odd-man out, skill wise. It's a good way to commit suicide in the fights I'm involved in. And to really use it, the team has to have cracker-jack timing (e.g it's pointless to try and rescue someone if they keep tagging the creature with hits). A more useful skill would be something that scares creatures away, confuses them, startles them, stuns them, etc.
2) Ranger traps are like Ranger camps, pure eye candy.

Message Edited by Ogo on 05-04-2004 03:34 PM

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Ogo wrote:
A more useful skill would be something that scares creatures away, confuses them, startles them, stuns them, etc.

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