Ranger Archive

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LowbaTherf wrote:

hmmm...it has potential....but right now camoflague doesn't work for people who want to attack you because of factional status. So if you have negative imperial or corsec faction they will still attack you.

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With -5000 Imperial faction (Rebel Colonels are not usually on good terms with the Empire), I find that camo works very nicely on Imperials even with really bad faction (and it works when overt or TEFed). It does have some problems with other enemies but I've had a lot of success using it against Imperial targets.

Bah. Poke em anyway. What's the worst that can happen? If nothing else, you get to see new and wonderful cloners around the Galaxy.

I'm especially fond of the one in Mos Taike.

I've read that people have noticed differences in camo while mounted on a bike. Seems to work better on foot, smething I haven't tried myself yet.

Hehe, well, after the last 'fixing' of cammo I went out and did a bit of wandering about. On Tat I danced round Tusken while being -5k, likewise with Rorgungans, Flail, Corsec. But there were still some that just seemed ot aggro for the heck of it, so, tiring of dying in the interest of science I left it at that.

But, this past week I had a weird experience.

Got forced overt by an ST in Espa, dropped him before his pals could come play and went and hid behind the cloner till I could get peace to stick.

Bunged on a cammo then WALKED back to my house about 1km out of town. Right outside town there was a crackdown patrol, figuring I'd see what happened, I wandered in among them. Nada. Wander on out over the dunes, evil hermits ignored me, Desert demon ignored me, all the local NPC's (including townspeople/hermits) who I've got -ve faction with from loot whoring, they just gave me the big blind look.

Then some Jabba thieves and thugs jumped me, beat me to a pulp and stole my dinner money. Rather odd as I've got very strong +ve faction with Jabba, something like 4k +ve.

So, yup, cammo seems to work, sometimes, if you walk or crawl past, not run, not burst, not drive your big noisy bike. But then it makes your 'friends' kill you. Go figure! LOLOL

Camo/mask scent DOES seem to work a lot better on foot than on a bike.

That seems to make sense too, a bike is a big noisy thing, not very stealthy at all (not to mention the fact you dont apply camo to the bike itself)

Actually as it stands camo should help you vs opposing NPCs because it does seem to reduce the aggro range of an NPC (lets you get a lot closer w/o aggro than if you came up w/o camo) I wouldnt count on being able to just waltz into a city or a base like you were invisible though.

Perhaps Rangers could get a new type of Camo that is more a 'disguise' allowing them to move around undetected but the 'disguise' would be subject to the same chance camo has of breaking. (bascially be a 'pretend' member of an opposing faction.) - actually this would fit well with smugglers too.

I'm going to have a very spastic, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde moment here, while my Smuggler and Ranger halves duke it out over whom should have the ability to get people through cities past NPCs that don't like them.
I'll admit right off the bat, I lean slightly more to my Smuggler side than my Ranger side. I'm trying to be fair.

Pro-Rangers:
- Rangers already have camo, and covering people from aggro NPCs is already part of this skill. It would be an easy, no brainer add to this.

Con-Rangers:
- Rangers are the masters of the outdoors, and while they already have the ability to mask people from NPCs, the reasoning behind the camouflage skill is taking resources from nature, from the planet, and making something that will people people blend in with the natural environment. A city is an urban environment and entirely different. Some guy walking through Coronet with sticks and leaves and animal doo stuck to him is DEFINITELY going to be looked at funny by the local law enforcement. What realistic basis does the Ranger, the outdoorsman, have for sneaking people through cities?
- There seems to be some debate if camo works against opposing or low faction NPCs. If that's the case, or has a lower chance of success, I'd think this also weakens the debate for Rangers being able to camo Rebels against Imperials, and vice versa.
- Takes away from Smugglers actually Smuggling. If such a skill is given to the Rangers, what does that leave to give the Smugglers, and this is a feature the Smuggler community has been asking, begging, pleading for.
- Involves adding new functionality to the GCW/PvP, and introduces balance concerns.

Pro-Smugglers:
- SMUGGLErs. Get to... smuggle things and people.
- Disguising and sneaking people past law enforcement and opposing faction is one of the major realms of the Smuggler. (Not the SWG Smuggler, they don't get to do such things, despite desperate wish to.) It makes sense, Star Warsy sense, reality sense to put some kind of "Urban Camouflage" or sneaky-bypass skill in the realm of the sneaky-bypass profession. I wouldn't expect a smuggler to be able to sneak people past an angry bull rancor. That's Ranger territory, but sneaking things past the law, in a city... Smuggler all the way. Disguises, fake papers, bought faction to serve as temporary boost, buying or fast-talking people out if caught, etc. are all various means the Smugglers have been proposing as a basis for getting people past scans, either in a group, or by an item or a modifier given to another person.
- If this is seen as if it is in any way tied to bonuses against detection ala Imperial crackdown, Smugglers already have [unwritten] bonuses against passing Imperial scans that could be extended to include detection by opposing faction NPCs, just as well as camo could be extended to do the same by Rangers.

Con-Smugglers:
- Potential to take away from Ranger "camo" ability.
- Involves adding new functionality to a class which has nothing like it existing, as well as the GCW and PvP, and introduces balance concerns.


After weighing the pros and cons as I've sat here and thought about them, what I would like to see is this:

Give the Ranger's existing camouflauge ability the power to mask faction aggro in the wilderness. This would mean anywhere that is not part of an NPC or player city, using existing game mechanics for whether or not a player is in a city, or "urban" area. Camo would still be just as effective and unchanged vs. animals and general NPCs... this would only affect the Ranger's ability to mask Rebels against Imperial NPCs and scan units in the wilderness, and Imperials vs. Rebels. It is not my intention to take anything away from the Rangers. As it is, the Rangers don't have an ability to cover GCW faction; this would add functionality.

Give the Smugglers an ability to cover players against aggro NPCs in city areas ONLY. There's still, always debate over what form the Smuggler ability to do so would take. Be it needing to be grouped, or within a certain radius of the Smuggler through the city, via a disguise item crafted or purchased and given to the other player, something that functions like camo for rangers whatever it is. It wouldn't work against aggro from animals, it wouldn't work in the wild, it wouldn't negate the Ranger camo ability in any way, shape, or form.

If I wanted to be snuck through the wilderness, to travel from one city to another, undetected, I'd go to a Ranger for his knowledge how to move, and hunt, and hide in nature. If I wanted to be snuck through the city, I'd go to a Smuggler, for his knowledge on how to get around and fool the law, move through the back alleys, fool people, and give them the slip. The Smuggler's special brand of sneakiness would end right where the Ranger's begins, giving them both a market for helping in the GCW, without stepping on each other's toes. While I see both the Ranger and the Smuggler depending on their skill and knowledge for this functionality, they both have their own domain where their skill and knowledge is at play. Additionally, the Ranger's ability is born out of survival in nature, away from politics and factional squabbles, whether it be Rebels Vs. Imperials or Hutts vs. Valarians. The Smuggler's is born out of evasion of rules & law enforcement, and is far more political and interpersonal.

Message Edited by Kamileon on 02-03-2005 06:31 PM

Message Edited by Kamileon on 02-03-2005 06:36 PM

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Kamileon wrote:
I'm going to have a very spastic, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde moment here, while my Smuggler and Ranger halves duke it out over whom should have the ability to get people through cities past NPCs that don't like them.
I'll admit right off the bat, I lean slightly more to my Smuggler side than my Ranger side. I'm trying to be fair.

Pro-Rangers:
- Rangers already have camo, and covering people from aggro NPCs is already part of this skill. It would be an easy, no brainer add to this.

Con-Rangers:
- Rangers are the masters of the outdoors, and while they already have the ability to mask people from NPCs, the reasoning behind the camouflage skill is taking resources from nature, from the planet, and making something that will people people blend in with the natural environment. A city is an urban environment and entirely different. Some guy walking through Coronet with sticks and leaves and animal doo stuck to him is DEFINITELY going to be looked at funny by the local law enforcement. What realistic basis does the Ranger, the outdoorsman, have for sneaking people through cities?
- There seems to be some debate if camo works against opposing or low faction NPCs. If that's the case, or has a lower chance of success, I'd think this also weakens the debate for Rangers being able to camo Rebels against Imperials, and vice versa.
- Takes away from Smugglers actually Smuggling. If such a skill is given to the Rangers, what does that leave to give the Smugglers, and this is a feature the Smuggler community has been asking, begging, pleading for.
- Involves adding new functionality to the GCW/PvP, and introduces balance concerns.

Pro-Smugglers:
- SMUGGLErs. Get to... smuggle things and people.
- Disguising and sneaking people past law enforcement and opposing faction is one of the major realms of the Smuggler. (Not the SWG Smuggler, they don't get to do such things, despite desperate wish to.) It makes sense, Star Warsy sense, reality sense to put some kind of "Urban Camouflage" or sneaky-bypass skill in the realm of the sneaky-bypass profession. I wouldn't expect a smuggler to be able to sneak people past an angry bull rancor. That's Ranger territory, but sneaking things past the law, in a city... Smuggler all the way. Disguises, fake papers, bought faction to serve as temporary boost, buying or fast-talking people out if caught, etc. are all various means the Smugglers have been proposing as a basis for getting people past scans, either in a group, or by an item or a modifier given to another person.
- If this is seen as if it is in any way tied to bonuses against detection ala Imperial crackdown, Smugglers already have [unwritten] bonuses against passing Imperial scans that could be extended to include detection by opposing faction NPCs, just as well as camo could be extended to do the same by Rangers.

Con-Smugglers:
- Potential to take away from Ranger "camo" ability.
- Involves adding new functionality to a class which has nothing like it existing, as well as the GCW and PvP, and introduces balance concerns.


After weighing the pros and cons as I've sat here and thought about them, what I would like to see is this:

Give the Ranger's existing camouflauge ability the power to mask faction aggro in the wilderness. This would mean anywhere that is not part of an NPC or player city, using existing game mechanics for whether or not a player is in a city, or "urban" area. Camo would still be just as effective and unchanged vs. animals and general NPCs... this would only affect the Ranger's ability to mask Rebels against Imperial NPCs and scan units in the wilderness, and Imperials vs. Rebels. It is not my intention to take anything away from the Rangers. As it is, the Rangers don't have an ability to cover GCW faction; this would add functionality.

Give the Smugglers an ability to cover players against aggro NPCs in city areas ONLY. There's still, always debate over what form the Smuggler ability to do so would take. Be it needing to be grouped, or within a certain radius of the Smuggler through the city, via a disguise item crafted or purchased and given to the other player, something that functions like camo for rangers whatever it is. It wouldn't work against aggro from animals, it wouldn't work in the wild, it wouldn't negate the Ranger camo ability in any way, shape, or form.

If I wanted to be snuck through the wilderness, to travel from one city to another, undetected, I'd go to a Ranger for his knowledge how to move, and hunt, and hide in nature. If I wanted to be snuck through the city, I'd go to a Smuggler, for his knowledge on how to get around and fool the law, move through the back alleys, fool people, and give them the slip. The Smuggler's special brand of sneakiness would end right where the Ranger's begins, giving them both a market for helping in the GCW, without stepping on each other's toes. While I see both the Ranger and the Smuggler depending on their skill and knowledge for this functionality, they both have their own domain where their skill and knowledge is at play. Additionally, the Ranger's ability is born out of survival in nature, away from politics and factional squabbles, whether it be Rebels Vs. Imperials or Hutts vs. Valarians. The Smuggler's is born out of evasion of rules & law enforcement, and is far more political and interpersonal.

Message Edited by Kamileon on 02-03-2005 06:31 PM

Message Edited by Kamileon on 02-03-2005 06:36 PM

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I don't know about that...

A Ranger applies mud, dung, leaves and twigs to body.

A Corsec trooperwalks around Tyrena, spots ranger covered in all sorts of stuff, crouching and staring intently at theCorsec trooper, waiting to see if the camo breaks.

The trooper stares back for a second. Then mumbles "I'm not paid enough to deal with that level of crazy..." and walks away.

Ranger.....forteh win.

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LowbaTherf wrote:

I don't know about that...

A Ranger applies mud, dung, leaves and twigs to body.

A Corsec trooperwalks around Tyrena, spots ranger covered in all sorts of stuff, crouching and staring intently at theCorsec trooper, waiting to see if the camo breaks.

The trooper stares back for a second. Then mumbles "I'm not paid enough to deal with that level of crazy..." and walks away.

Ranger.....forteh win.

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ROFLMAO.

In all seriousness, I am a Ranger, and I personally would like to see smugglers be able to camo people in the city. Rangers right now can camo people in the wild with pretty good results. I can crawl through the wilderness and not get spotted by the imperal patrols. That's fine. Rangers should be able to do that. But there are ways of implementing a smuggler form of hiding.

Perhaps not something they apply to the person, but something that is done another way, but has the same effect. You land in a town with a Master Smuggler. Working quickly, he runs to the closest factional person and chooses a new bribe option. In doing so, he can choose to make the person invisible to troops of that faction. The smuggler has to pay either money or faction points (perhaps both?) and then that person won't be aggro'd by people of those troops. In other words, the smuggler bribes the troops to look the other way while that person is in town. Since the troops in the wild wouldn't see any of the money, they would still aggro the person.

Thoughts?