Ranger Archive

Thread: Combat Camps

Owen-Lars
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:02 am
#1



Hey guys, i would like to run a few ideas past you just to see what you think about them. They are nothing new, just another way of telling the story to give the devs options.


We all know of the modular approach and how cool it would be, this doesnt mean i like this idea better, just that its another alternative:


How do you feel about making camps combat buff modules?


Camps from the begining have always been heading down a slippery slope because they slow adventuring down and provide survival type functionswhen in this game theyarnt needed much. This has been the main problem for camps and why they have been nerfed into oblivion although if they would of been changed rather than nerfed we wouldnt have this problem. As i see it, we need to move away from the out of combat recouperation view of camps and into the combat arena. Camps need to do things for us and those in our group whilst in combat and provide functions attractive to group situations.


For those that have played WoW you will most likely of heard of totems and how they work? Essentially they are player or shaman placed items in the game world that provide combat buffs/debuffs/restrictions. Although i dont want our camps to turn into wood poles i would like to see a tendancy for our camps(or a couple of them)to move towards more combat effects and a situation where we place an Entrenched Fortification Camp to give us defensivebenefits to the party, or an Assault Platform Camp to give usoffensive benefits.


There would be various camps split into 2 types; Fortifications and Survival Camps. Here is a basic run down of the type of camps you would see in each type:


Fortifications:


Fortifications specialise in combat bonuses and benefits that will effect how you fight. The camps themselves are reletively small and are designed to act as an indicator of the current combat camp rather than a defensive/offensive structure. There are a number of key points to consider with these camps:


  • Only 1 fortification effect can be applied at once, if two clash, no effect is given

  • Any players in the rangers group in range of the fortification (128m radius) will gain the benefits.

  • Fortifications can be placed much more easily, up to 40m from a lair.

  • These fortifications are destructable by attacking the energy source in the center of the camp (protected) and has around 40-50k hitpoints.

  • The fortifications stay up in combat and last for around an hour.

  • A ranger can only have one fortifications up at a time.

  • Fortifications (like existing camps) cannot be placed during combat so you must prepare for your battle and also makes taking out the camp a goal for the opposition.

Fortification Options:


Assault Platform: The Assault Platform acts as an offensive launchpad giving bonuses to those group members inside its radius.



  • General Melee Accuracy +25

  • General Melee Speed +20

  • General Ranged Accuracy +25

  • General Ranged Speed +20

Entrenched Bunker: The Entrenched Bunkers acts as a defensive possition giving those in group and in range defensive benefits.



  • Melee Defense +50

  • Ranged Defense +50

Hunting Blind: The Hunting Blind is designed to aid in hunting and gives hunting bonuses to those that are in range.



  • Trapping +40%

  • Creature Harvesting +15%

  • Creature to-hit +10

  • Defense vs Creatures +10 (10% damage reduction)

  • Damage vs Creatures +10 (10% increase)

The art of these new camps:


Like i was saying, these fortifications, rather than having a massive footprint, are prety small using existing art assets to indicate what type of camp they are. I was thinking we may aswel use htfb deed (not the camp but the deed) art and possibly the architect wall modules to make something that looks like a fortification? Ill have a play around with some art assets tonight and see if i can get some screenies.



Survival Camps:


Survival camps are essentially camps that provide out of combat functions and benefits. These camps use the High Tech Camp, Field Base and High Tech Field Base art assetsand the same placement rules as we currently have. They have a few key points:


  • Only one survival buff can be present at any one time, same buffs can be extended/reapplied

  • Cannot be placed in combat.

  • Survival camps (excluding the rally point)DO NOT stay up in combatand disband after 30 mins unless otherwise stated.

  • Camp functions are only useable by the ranger's group (excluding the rally point)

Survival Camp Options:


Recouperation Facility: The Recouperation Facility is the most basic of ranger camps and is designed as a quick place and recover camp between fights limiting the downtime. This camp does not stay up in combat.



  • Max Auto Wound Healing

  • Health Regen +200

  • Action Regen +200

  • Mind Regen +200

Hunters Retreat: The Hunters Retreat is designed for an out of combat place to regen, refresh and prepare for the day's hunt. It provides basic recouperation bonuses, large concealment benefits and also gives users a Hunters Instinct buff. This camp doesnot stay up in combat.



  • 50% Auto Wound Healing

  • Camoflague +50

  • Hunters Instinct Buff


    • Camoflague +10%

    • Trapping +10%

    • Melee Defense +10

    • Creature Harvesting +10%

    • Damage vs Creatures +10 (10% damage increase)

Hunters Instinct Buff: This buff is designed specifically for PvCreature combat to increase the effectiveness of those wanting to go out and hunt and gives the ranger a desirable function in groups. To get the buff, the player has to access the camp terminal and select "Camp" from the radial, the player will then have to wait aprox 2 mins for the buff to take hold (similar to how we get inspiration buffs only longer) and the buff lasts 1 hour. The creature harvesting and damage vs creature bonuses enable the players with this buff to fight much more competantly against creatures and when coupled with the hunting blind gives a total 20% damage increase against creatures, a very desirable increase.Only people in the rangers group can get this buff.


Rally Point: This massive structure is obtained at Master Ranger and is designed as a rally point for troops and groups to prepare, re-supply and launch from. It can be registered on the planetary map if factionally alligned and players can go 'overt' using the camps terminal. This camp does stay up in combat up until disbanded or reaches its 1hr duration.



  • 50% Auto Wound Healing

  • Faction Terminal (same costs as recruiter, can go pvp flagged, reb/imp depending on ranger allignment like we have now in the HTFB)

  • Entertainers can buff/heal just like a cantina

  • Can be registered on planetary map using camp terminal

  • Prepared Buff


    • General Melee Speed +5

    • General Melee Accuracy +10

    • General Ranged Speed +5

    • General Ranged Accuracy +10

    • Melee Defense +5

    • Ranged Defense +5

Prepared Buff: This buff is designed to enhance the combat capabilities of those troops who spend time and effort to prepare, rest and plan their attacks. To get the buff, the player has to access the camp terminal and select "Camp" from the radial, the player will then have to wait aprox 2 mins for the buff to take hold (similar to how we get inspiration buffs only longer) and the buff lasts 1 hour.The mods are specifically designed for PvNPC or PvP combat and should not be more attractive for creature combat than the Hunters Instinctbuff


Extraction Beacon: The extraction beacon is a hunting device used to extract a group from the wilderness after a long day's hunting by calling in a shuttle to that location. This camp cannot be placed in combat so it is not an escape tool, simply a survival extraction device. Once the camp has been layed there will be a 1 minute countdown before a shuttle will apear. Once the shuttle arives players have 1 more minute to use the terminal before the camp is disbanded. Players who choose to travel can travel to the planetarystarport/outpost of their choosing for 1,000 credits.



  • Allows travel to planetary starports/outposts from camp location

  • Only 1 way travel

  • Costs 1,000 credits

  • 1 minute before shuttle lands, 1 minute after that until camp disbands and window is missed.

Camp Art:


Apart from the Extraction Beacon we can use existing camp art assets as the new camps with possibly a slight modification to the camp terminal interface and Rally Point faction terminal. Here are what each camp would look like:



  • Recouperation Facility = High Tech Camp art

  • Hunters Retreat = Field Base art

  • Rally Point = High Tech Field Base art

  • Extraction Point = Random POI camp artwith shuttle

The Ranger Tree:


Here is how the Ranger Tree would look like in regards to frontiering and the new camps:



  • Recouperation Facility: Novice Ranger

  • Entrenched Bunker: Frontiering 1

  • Hunting Blind: Frontiering 2

  • Hunters Retreat: Frontiering3

  • Assault Platform: Frontiering 4

  • Rally Point: Master Ranger

  • ExtractionBeacon: Master Ranger


Final Comments:


The bonuses of the camps are very attractive and give a lot of mix and matching potential between the various camps. The mixture of out of combat survival units and in combat fortifications really does a lot to enhance not only camp functionality but also what a ranger does in swg as a whole. The downside to camps is ofcourse they cannot be used in towns and have certain limitation where they can be placed in the wild, this i hope, in conjunction with the skill point investment will ofset the benefits of these camps to the point of balance.


That is it basically. I hope that the designcame across on the page with the main purpose to give rangers out of combat functionality and also a very group friendly in combat benefit through the use of camps. Please feel free to let me know what you think about it. Oh and dont think i still dont like modular camping

Message Edited by Owen-Lars on 06-24-2005 08:57 PM



THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
sopranos
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:04 am
#2

wow these sound like GREAT ideas


i would LOVE it!


sprognak
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:07 am
#3

Rather than not staying up in combat, how about not having any affect in Combat but can be used in downtime?




Hareb'Arl, Europe-Chimaera Server.
Rebel Wookiee. Council Member of Seekers of the Legacy

Someone said that light travels faster than sound.... I guess that's why some people seem bright until you hear them talk.

Grinder of 2 Elder Jedi (and a few alts)

Owen-Lars
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:14 am
#4

If it could be done i would be up for that. Although the idea of the recouperation facility and ofcourse a resource cost reflecting this would direct the player towards using these often and quickly so not all is lost if you have to pull out a recoup camp after a big fight.



THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Calculus_Entropy
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:18 am
#5

Those are certainly wonderful ideas. I have a question about the healing camps. Do you intend to ask the devs to up the auto wound healing rates? They are just too slow in their current state.

BTW, I really like the breakdown and strength of buffs that each camp would provide, but the Scout/Ranger skill buffs might be a tad low (maybe ~ +25 would be more beneficial?).

Message Edited by Calculus_Entropy on 06-24-2005 10:22 AM



Calculus Entropy
Ranger Blue Glowie Emeritus
Garindan used /areatrack to find Han.
Owen-Lars
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:23 am
#6

Yeah thats why i decided to put % values rather than straight figures. The ones we have at present are very crap and instead should be determined by wounds per minutes etc. Although still we should be aiming for perhaps 2-4 wounds a min on the survival camps, the recoup survival camp should be around 10 a min. We should try for recouperation rather than straight healing rates.



THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Owen-Lars
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:27 am
#7


Good idea on the scout/ranger stuff too. I honestly wasnt sure where about the scale the buffs. Originally i was thinking that you could get both survival buffs and use the camps but instead i changed it so you can only have one 'camped' buff at once, be it prepared and hunters instinct buff.


What would you think is acceptable for both the Hunting Blind and Hunters Retreat based of the same buffed mods?


Hunting Blind: (FORTIFICATION)


  • Trapping +40
  • Creature Harvesting +25
  • Creature to-hit +10
  • Defense vs Creatures +10 (10% damage reduction)
  • Damage vs Creatures +10 (10% increase)

Hunters Retreat: (SURVIVAL CAMP)



  • 50% Auto Wound Healing
  • Camoflague +50
  • Hunters Instinct Buff

    • Camoflague +10
    • Trapping +10
    • Melee Defense +10
    • Creature Harvesting +10
    • Damage vs Creatures +10



THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Calculus_Entropy
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:29 am
#8



Owen-Lars wrote:
Yeah thats why i decided to put % values rather than straight figures. The ones we have at present are very crap and instead should be determined by wounds per minutes etc. Although still we should be aiming for perhaps 2-4 wounds a min on the survival camps, the recoup survival camp should be around 10 a min. We should try for recouperation rather than straight healing rates.



OK, so what do you mean by 50% Wound Healing? I thought you meant 50% of the max healing rate?



Calculus Entropy
Ranger Blue Glowie Emeritus
Garindan used /areatrack to find Han.
Owen-Lars
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:31 am
#9

Yeah thats what i mean, i didnt know what sort of healing rate we would have by that time or infact what we should have so just said 100% of the rate for the healer camp, and half that for the others to show the role of each camp.



THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER
Calculus_Entropy
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:34 am
#10


Owen-Lars wrote:
Good idea on the scout/ranger stuff too. I honestly wasnt sure where about the scale the buffs. Originally i was thinking that you could get both survival buffs and use the camps but instead i changed it so you can only have one 'camped' buff at once, be it prepared and hunters instinct buff.
What would you think is acceptable for both the Hunting Blind and Hunters Retreat based of the same buffed mods?
Hunting Blind: (FORTIFICATION) - These are right on, I think.
  • Trapping +40
  • Creature Harvesting +25
  • Creature to-hit +10
  • Defense vs Creatures +10 (10% damage reduction)
  • Damage vs Creatures +10 (10% increase)

Hunters Retreat: (SURVIVAL CAMP)

  • 50% Auto Wound Healing
  • Camoflague +50 (While in camp?)
  • Hunters Instinct Buff
    • Camoflague +10 (+25)
    • Trapping +10 (+25)
    • Melee Defense +10 (+25)
    • Creature Harvesting +10 (+25)
    • Damage vs Creatures +10 (Is this % based..i.e. 10%?)



I made my first comment about these buffs without actually considering them buffs, specifically the Hunter's Inspiration Buff! I was thinking of them as bonuses that you had while in the camp (and therefore, why make a camp that limits your area or hunting, for such a small benefit). Now that i have reread it, I know that you intended it to be a 'mobile' buff. So, basically...DUH (to me)!



Calculus Entropy
Ranger Blue Glowie Emeritus
Garindan used /areatrack to find Han.
Kwisakk
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:44 am
#11


I know this is a little out there, but how about on the assault platform you have a large to medium gun turret you can use on creatures. Assault platform just makes me thank of gun turrets.


Thanks


Kwisakk<NerfD>


Master Ranger


Master Rifleman


Starsider

Owen-Lars
Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:49 am
#12


  • 50% Auto Wound Healing
  • Camoflague +50 (While in camp?)

  • Yes the idea is that the camp is the ranger retreat, essentially making it so we can afk in camp or 'hide' in camp and not much will attack us. The idea of the camo bonuse is that even on a planet such as Dath or another planet with level 70-90s we can stay hidden quiet capably. Its just an alternative to having agro repelling.



  • Hunters Instinct Buff

    • Camoflague +10 (+25)
    • Trapping +10 (+25)
    • Melee Defense +10 (+25)

    If stacked with the Entrenchment Camp though that means you have +75 melee defense which is kind of higher than i first though especially considering that we would have innate defenses too. I was trying to put the melee defense part small enough just to make a difference overall but the main bonuses to melee coming from the hunting blind through creature damage mitigation. I still think that +10 -15 isnt bad but that +25 is a little high considering you can stack a survival buff with a fortification.



    • Creature Harvesting +10 (+25)

    Im ok with this but it is one big ass bouns.



    • Damage vs Creatures +10 (Is this % based..i.e. 10%?)

    Yeah 10% increase. The hunting blind also gives 10% increase for a total of 20% increased damage and it also gives 10% damage reduction which is prety powerfull. Best to stick with these figures as a max number.




    THORTAC BALCOR
    The Lost Ranger
    RANGER
    Owen-Lars
    Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:51 am
    #13

    On adding turrets i didnt realy like that idea. I think the main hunting should be from the group using the camp, not the camp itself. Apart from the obvious balance implications (having an object do damage for you) i just think that turrets would be best kept to factional bases.


    I actually considered the possibility of adding turrets to the rally point camp but decided against it because the players there should defend it and the camp being temp in nature, turrets would be a costly affair and would make rangers basically a walking castle.





    THORTAC BALCOR
    The Lost Ranger
    RANGER
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