Ranger Archive
Thread: A few suggestions to make Rangers more useful
1) Give us a service to sell
Right now we don't really produce anything that people want that can't be found elsewhere. We can make money with hides/bones/meat, but so can a scout (granted, we'll make more money). And I've yet to find anyone wanting to purchase /conceal.
If we are the ultimate creature/environment folks, how about letting us create wall mount trophies? For example, instead of going through insane house layout tricks to make a fish appear mounted on the wall, someone brings the fish to us and we convert it into an object that's meant to appear as if it's hanging on the wall. Gets rid of all the z-axis issue by replacing one game object with another.
In addition, we could create mounts from slain animals. Not sure how the resource would be gathered, or if it would have to be done in the field, but I think it would be cool to have a wall-mounted Murrah head or Huurton-hoof rifle rack in the living room! People currently use BE pets as trophies, but we could create them with unique graphical treatments, which I think people would like. Plus, hunters would feel good about a "real" trophy of the creature they killed.
2) Give us a PvP benefit
Just about everyone has complained about /conceal, and I'll chime in. Remember all those Join the Army ads where a soldier is "hiding in plain sight?" Well, that's what rangers should be able to do -- soldiers aren't hiding out from snakes and woodchucks, they're making themselves invisible to people.
Using that ranger template, we should be the ultimate recon characters. We should definitely be able to avoid NPCs with /conceal. For PvP, how about some different sort of cammo kit available at Master that makes us (or others?) invisible on the game radar? That would allow rangers to scout out live player targets and report back to the group. I never PvP, so I don't know if this would be helpful -- maybe others could comment.
3) Create semi-permanent/improved camps to provide value to groups
Right now, there isn't a whole lot of benefit to using Field Base camps. Even though the heal rate is faster, 8 times out of 10 someone just wants a camp so they can get out a new animal, and people have droids that negate using the crafting stations. It's better to use the beginner scout camp than waste resources on the field base.
In addition, you can't engage in any combat without losing your camp right away, meaning you either must keep burning through camps or sit back while everyone else goes off to fight. I actually do know some crafter players who like hanging out in the tent crafting while everyone else fights, but I get bored since I have no skill points available for crafting.
How about letting the camp stay up as long as a person from your group is still in it (and of course only allow one camp at a time)? As far as other benefits go, maybe some non-crafting oriented benefts could be added to high-level camps. For example, a "comlink terminal" that provides access to missions, but with lower payouts so people still have a reason to go to town. Or maybe a special bazzaar terminal that lets people make purchases from out in the field or monitor their sales, but that doesn't let players place items for sale or retrieve them. (I can't make the highest level camp yet, so maybe some things like these already exist, but I don't think so.)
hmm... I like a lot of the suggestions but I wanted to back up the devs on one thing: Rangers not appearing on Radar. The devs can't do this. In any way, shape or form. Being on the Radar is what allows you to be targeted for attack. If you read any other boards, you may want to check out the BHboard (I swear, I'm not a BH spy-- i just like comparing our issues to the issues of other proffesions so I compare them) you'd find that one of their issues is the "white dot" issue where Jedi appear as white dots on the radar and thus cannot be attacked (if I mis-read the issue or didn't cover it fully/properly, just reply to this, but please no flames, I'm not perfect). So removing us from Radar isn't feasible since we'd be unable to be attacked even if the other player really COULD see us. If we camo directly in front of someone (in theory) they'd be able to see us and attack us. If we dissappeared from radar until we attacked (as you and others have suggested) it'd be odd that they could SEE us on their screen that they could not attack us.
The suggestion that others have made is not a removal from the screen but what would act like a temporary return to a covert state. In other words, you'd appear as a yellow dot if declared, not as a red dot, to other factions. This would be a bonus.
The idea I like best though is a defensive bonus against players.The idea is that they can see us on radar, since this is a technologically advanced universe and camo doesn't prevent you from giving off heat signatures, but that when it comes time to shootthe target, the enemy has to SEE you to target you properly. Since you are under camo, players would recieve a large negative to hit bonus on you. Until they break your camo by hitting you, you'd be VERY hard to hit (by the way, this is NOT my idea, I forgot who posted it, but I assume no personal credit for this idea). Also a visual animation has been suggested which would help slightly in PvP since some people like to manually target and we'd be harder to see.
whoops, it posted before I was through. I think I accidentaly hit Tab or something to make it "Submit Post" when I hit enter.
okay, continuing. I really like your idea about a com link to mission terminals with lower payoffs. The way the devs could do this (I put this down only to show how it would be feasible, not to really tell the Devs what to do) would be to make it so that players get a negative difficulty modifier. I know that when I am unarmed my missions are no where near the difficulty as those when I have my rifle equiped (I'm a Rifleman). So what if missions you got in a higher camp were made as though the person was of lesser skill (those who would get level 15 would get level 10, or something like that). Plus if a Ranger is in a camp while the mission is getting done, he should get money, even if he doesn't participate in the fight (he's literally holding down the fort...er, field base). Well, that could be exploited, so maybe not. If Ranger camps stay up through fighting though, this wouldn't be an issue.
This idea fits in line with one I've stated before: field bases and HTFB should be modular. There should be an option as to what you put in the slots. The slots would be for different types of crafting stations, and other things like a com link. that way whatever is needed at the time would be put out. FB's would have one slot, HTFB's should have two or three. That way, there is a HUGE advantage over having little crappy camps.
So this idea is REALLY good, and I think we need more like it.
peace, love and Rangering.
Hmm, isn't the point of having a wall mount trophy that it be something *you* killed? Not sure why someone would buy a trophy from a ranger of something the ranger had killed.
Also disagree on giving ranger pvp benefits. We're supposed to be a PVE class, no, actually we're supposed to be THE PVE class. I just wish that rangers were actually good at PVE, lol. I'd settle for some serious balancing changes that made us better in PVE. As far as conceal goes, it's useless, I just wish they would get rid of it entirely and give us something else that had some usefulness.
I agree, Rangers should be the PvE champs, undisputed. But even considering that, we need abilities that can be used in PvP as well. Bounty Hunters and Commandos are the PvP champs, and they are also usefull in PvE. Eyeshot works on all targets, not just on other players. This is because Bounty Hunters study how to kill humans and this leads them to general combat skills. The same SHOULD be true for Rangers. We learn to hunt animals and this leads to general combat skills that can be used against other players and NPC's. There is no logical reason that bounty hunters should have more powerful attacks then us when it comes to animals. The only way to make us the true PvE champs would be to either add bonuses to our attacks or to apply penalties to BH's and Commando's attacks.
Obviously, this would not happen, for several reasons. (No I don't actually think this SHOULD happen, I'm not a large fan of nerfing others) What I am trying to emphasize is that if BH's can be uber in PvP and also usefull in PvE, why shouldn't the inverse be true of Rangers. In my mind, we need special attacks that are comparable (not in damage, but in versatility) to some of other classes special attacks.
I agree that we NEED to live up to our PvE classification more (these attacks should be useable against creatures/pets/players/NPC's) and we therefore we need to become more in line with the "Bounty Hunters of the wild" idea. But being good hunting animals should provide us SOME extra abilities even in hunting other players. There's nothing wrong with being the PvE champs, but we do need SOME PvP skills.
GoldMemberBria wrote:Hmm, isn't the point of having a wall mount trophy that it be something *you* killed? Not sure why someone would buy a trophy from a ranger of something the ranger had killed.
Also disagree on giving ranger pvp benefits. We're supposed to be a PVE class, no, actually we're supposed to be THE PVE class. I just wish that rangers were actually good at PVE, lol. I'd settle for some serious balancing changes that made us better in PVE. As far as conceal goes, it's useless, I just wish they would get rid of it entirely and give us something else that had some usefulness.
You misunderstood my suggestion. I'm not saying rangers should sell the things they kill as trophies (although there isn't any reason they couldn't), I am saying rangers should sell the SERVICE of mounting slain animals as trophies. A player catches a fish, takes it to a ranger, the ranger mounts it and returns it. Likewise, a player kills an animal, they bring some component to the ranger (maybe a new Carcass object?), the ranger mounts it and gives it back to the player.
The logistics on how to acquire something like the carcass object would have to be worked out by the devs. Maybe the ranger has to be grouped with the person when the animal is killed and perform the actual "carcass gathering" then and there, adding a reason for rangers to be brought along on big hunts. Or maybe it's a lootable object that anyone can get off of certain animals and bring to the ranger. The carcass would be the raw material and the ranger could make something out of it (wall mount, gun rack, rug, etc.).
Phenix1050 wrote:hmm... I like a lot of the suggestions but I wanted to back up the devs on one thing: Rangers not appearing on Radar. The devs can't do this. In any way, shape or form. Being on the Radar is what allows you to be targeted for attack.
That's a bummer -- I wasn't aware of that. I do like your alternative suggestions though.
WOW, All I can say is great post!
I totally agree with all of those ideas. The devs are always asking us for specific examples of new features we want, all of these would really save the ranger class and make it a fun class to play with a feel all it's own!
I agree...great ideas. If you did do the mounting of the carcasses, it would be intersting if the ranger could "pose" them in a certain positions (sitting, standing, attacking, etc). It might make the trophies more interesting.
Balakor
Rangers are not PvE only, we have some good things that can be used in PvP; why would they give us the ability to track players? IMO a Ranger is a person who can survive out in the wilds for long periods of ime with out having to go back to civilization, and needing other players not near as much as most do.
I think maybe rangers should be some very limited self-healing, enough to deal with simple wounds and such but would still have to get a doctor to heal major wounds. Also this is where I am coming from here, because we are much better at surviving in the wilds we get alot more extra mods to fighting PvE, because lets face it when you get down to it out in the wilds thats a rangers must common problems.
Now PvP. Just because you are a Ranger has no affect on your faction, a Ranger could be a wilderness surevivalist Imperial as much as a neutral or rebel. But to understand then that the Wild is the Rangers place, and so he should more effective there, knowing the lay of the land you could say. Like this Rangers could offer certain extras when grouped with others and they are fighting away from cities. Rangers should in some way be able to atleast hide/conceal himself from others, for what ever reasons.
I was thinking of making it so you don't show on the radar, and you cannot be tab targeted, but if they saw you they could click directly on you, and then your Camo would break. But its been said that you have to be on the radar so that might not work. Just a thought but rangers should be able to hide from others, in some way.
Another thing is that a master Ranger, should be an expert on his surroundings, he should be an expert in knowing the land and the creatures on it. Master rangers should be able to examine creatures and see teh stats of the different resources from it.
What do you guys think of some of this, I think I present a good side of ranger, even with PvP.