Ranger Archive

As Delta recently suggested on the Top Five thread, the last word is that conceal was never intended to work on NPC's. Bottom line. No one is happy about this, but (again, as Delta has suggested) the best thing we can do right now is to offer clear, cogent arguments as to why /conceal should work against NPC's, given that Rangers are supposed to be the "Ultimate Creature Hunters", since that is the argument that the devs will use against us. Perhaps if we can come up with some good reasons for the devs to stop considering the current state of /conceal to be a bug and instead turn it into a feature, we may have some hope in the future of maintaining the status quo.

Up to this point, there has been a lot of complaining and stand-offish behavior in reaction to the news, so I'm hoping maybe we can get a decent, civilized discussion going.

I'll start off with my argument for /conceal remaining the way it is:

As an Ultimate Creature Hunter, much of my hunting is done in the remote areas of high-level planets such as Dathomir, Yavin, and Dantooine. Many high level planets, espescially Dathomir, are crawling with unfriendly NPC's that could pound me into the dirt if I looked at em sideways. I need /conceal to work on NPCs because it helps to get me and my hunting parties to the creatures we're hunting without trouble along the way.

An astute developer whose vision for Ranger is that of the Ultimate Creature Hunter might argue that I and my hunting party could go around the threatening NPC's, just like everyone else. But what about those times that I use my tracking skill to finally find a lair of Ultimate Creatures, only to discover that it is 30m away from a lairless spawn of Nightsisters? Many professions might decide to look elsewhere for their quarry, but as a Ranger, I should have tools for making sure that I can dispatch creatures effeciently, even in some situations that other professions (who are not, BTW, Ultimate Creature Hunters) cannot deal with.

QED. /Conceal should work on NPCs. Anyone else have good arguments, either for or against?

I think it would productive if we stopped talking about what being a Ranger means to us, or why a Ranger should be this or that, at least in the context of this discussion. Take it a given that a Ranger is meant to be a creature hunter, because that is the devs' vision, and that is the reason that camo against NPC's is threatened right now.

Here's a question:

Would you be willing to go back to camo breaking on combat if it meant that it worked on NPC's? I would. When I'm camoed, I'm not concerned with getting the drop on an NPC; I'm trying to make sure that combat doesn't occur in the first place.

Rangers have to be considered the "Ultimate Hunters", left the Creature out on purpose. For camo not to work on NPCs is ludicrous. We are also considered "combat support". Working within these guidelines, as well as some others, I see how conceal can be beefed up and work properly.

I understand that that the Devs will not allow us to be invisible, and I can live with that.But how about "unseen" if certain circumstances are met,and there is always a chance we can be discovered.

There is no reason why camo should not work on PCs. No, I am not an expert on camo, tho I spent enought time painted green and black and wearing funny speckled suits to work. My vision of camo is simple and straightforward.

Camo'd and stationary - everything gets a chance to "see" you. Fail the one check per zone limit, the Ranger is not seen. Every stance change upwards of prone increases the chance of being seen.

Camo'd and moving - for every X number of feet traveled, everything in range gets a check. The faster you are moving, the lower your chances are of staying concealed.

Combat - one shot, percentage chance the target or any other person/creature in range "sees" you. Percentage climbs if you are not in the prone. More than one shot, be freaking real, blind chipmunks could pinpoint you. Tracers work both ways.

On a mount/vehicle or with a pet- forget it pal, you are visible. The mount/pet following you, or even in the area, is a great indicator you are there. As to the bikes/speeder, so unstealthy it's funny.

We are not "invisible" - it is just very hard to see us if we are lying there doing nothing. This skill would not work in towns, thopossibly it could in some of the larger parks, nor would it work in buildings (Charlie, did that shrub just move?)

As towards balance - Everything has a base chance of seeing us, and the higher up the food chain you are, the more chance you have at detecting the Ranger. Anything a Ranger does, and some things he doesn't do, effect the chances of staying concealed. And yes, it breaks in combat, as it should. We are not invisible, just hard to see under some circumstances. Oh yeah, our name tags blink off if we are concealed - makes sense.

Will this be a pain to program? No,not really; simple math and percentage chances, random number generator, all that crap.

Will this happen, I hope so. But, not counting on it. Til then, I will work within the system, flawed and flakey as it is, and continue to have fun.

Recon troops are technically combat support, as they refrain from engaging the enemy, unless forced to. Their primary mission is to gather and report intelligence. Conceal working like I envison would enhance that.

Y'all have a good one.

JB

Well personally, I feel that a Ranger is something different. When I play a ranger type in games(I usually always do) I feel that I am a an expert at surviving in the wilderness, against any foes, creatures, NPCs, and even PCs for that matter. We should not have to depend on the comfort of cities as much as other professions do. We shoudl be able to go for several days in the wilds with out having to return. If their stand point on what rangers are changed that we might get somewhere we all like.

Exactly. As a Ranger, I don't want to be considered an "Ultimate Creature Hunter", but rather as an Ultimate Hunter. If I can shield myself from the keen eyes of animals, why shouldn't I be able to shield myself from NPCs.

I think that if the devs want to keep camo kits as creature only, they need to make them a ton more effective. They are a little more effective than maskscent now, and Ranger should be a huge skill jump from scout. I would love for people wearing camo kits to not be seen on radar, but it will never happen, there would be way too many complaints. I would also like to see camo kits be usable by non-Rangers, but only craftable by Rangers. It would be a good way to bring some money to the profession.

Conceal should work for NPC just for it to be practical. Any heavy planet (Lok, Endor, Yavin, Dath), are where Camos have a point. Let's face it, your group doctor won't care to be mask scented on Naboo, nothing will kill him there.

Anyways, on those planet where we have a reason to camo people, there is many many many many aggressive NPC types, often spawning on top of us. If you can't repel those, no need to repel at all.

Creature Handlers should be the ultimate creature..ehh person.. bounty hunters should be the ultimate eh... human hunter.. Rangers should be good at both, but not as good as either of those two classes. I think we should be better then everyone else at hunting creatures and humans except for the CHs and for the BHs.. Well, hunting animals we should be great.. don't care about hunting humans, but I'd like conceal to work against them. So give me bonuses to killing creatures, and let me hide from both equally well. Let the BHs kill the NPCs.

I also don't want to go to cities.. hardly ever. I think the foraged buffs should be good enough to live with, not as good as docs or chefs, but good enough to where I wouldn't want to go to the city to get the others. every time I need them.

I also think that our camps should have mission terminals, so I can make my money without going in to the city.. if that's the way I want to do it.

If you're an IMP you should get an IMP terminal in you rbigest camp, as well as a recruiter so you can declare.... same for a Rebel Ranger.

Oneof our camps, or maybe two should not disband during combat.. The biggest for large groups, and a very small version for personal healing.

I won't go into traps, since I have no idea what they're going to do with them.. just make the ranger ones a bit more usefull... ok .. alot more usefull.

Swiming!!.. We should get a burst swim ability that gets better the higher you climb the tree.

We should be able to handle creatures a bit better then everyone else except for CHs of corse... nothing major, just maybe some level bonuses to the creatures we can handle.

THat's pretty much all I can think of.

Just came across an interesting post from a BH about meeting his Jedi Mark.

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I knew Id never find him tonite, so I /telled him and asked him if he would meet me and answer questions and share info with me in exchange for not hunting him, he accepted. So we met, and I asked, and he answered. We fought with promises of no DB to learn what works etc.. I got to tell you, the DOT is NOT red OR yellow when we met. It was WHITE, so TAB will NOT work. I could only target him with Reticule!!!! Ask your questions here, and I will get to them ASAP!!!

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Now this sounds like a possiblility for /conceal working against PCs. Only things that would be good is if we could disapear from the radar, but if not then this would still be great.