Ranger Archive
Thread: Revamp??? I hope not.
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RosaShyanne
Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:02 am
#1
I sure hope we don't get one. Not to the extreme that SL got. All we need is our bugs fixed and some of our skills altered. Before you all flame, I'm on my 4th Master Ranger toon, and have been playing SWG since release.
My simple solutions to drastically improve Ranger without a complete overhaul:
1. Trapping. At the 2nd skill box for Trapping, a Ranger should be allowed to start using traps on NPC and player characters. This would make a huge difference in the GCW giving us a nice support role in PvP combat. Imagine how powerful it would be to deliver 5-6 state effects to multiple players using AoE trapping. Front line combat classes would be able to stop stun, dizzy, blind, snare, attacks as we'd cover all of them, allowing those real PvP professions to do what they do best... dish out the damage. For this to be effective, the speed at which we deliver traps needs to be decreased, almost in half. Also, the state effects from traps should be better than ones from combat specials. Blind, for example, should last twice as long when delivered through a Flash Bomb than it is when applied with a combat special move, not twice as powerful, just last longer.
2. Camping. At Master Ranger, I would like to see the higher end camps comeequipped with a mission terminal and a comm link for shuttle pickup. This would actually give meaning to the camps which became useless once vehicles and pets could be called in the wild. Now, if the camps came with a mission terminal, then groups would be encouraged to go places on planets they've never hunted before. Groups would be able to get away from the outposts on Dant, Dath, and Endor and enjoy a little gaming in an unpopulated (and less lagged) part of a planet. Jedi would be eager to group with Rangerssolely for the ability to group grind XP without the high risk for visibilityhunting out of an outpost or player city provides. As for the comm link, what better way to avoid group disasters (and speed up exploration) than to allow the Rangers to have an eject button for the group. It would transport the group to the nearest shuttle port. To allow these ideasto be functional, player camps would need to last 1 full hour AFTER the owner leaves their vacinity, resetting each time the owner returns to the camp. What use is setting up a base of operations if it vanishes each time we move a little to investigate some noise heard over the next hill?? Also, each player would need to be within the camps limits to be transported with the Ranger (we don't want any PvP exploits). Camps also need to stay intact during combat.
3. Creature Harvest. This really needs to move out of the Tracking Tree and into another. Dabblers that only want tracking for BH targets should not be rewarded with harvesting anywhere near the levels of Master Ranger. Also, fix the CA's and AA's for this skill. Creature Harvesting is the primary source of income for the Ranger Profession, the devs should at least put effort into making sure that Master Rangers excell more than dabblers, and allow the skill enhancments to stick.
That's about it !!!! No, I don't think we need combat specials. They would only force our templates toward a certain type of weapon, or even worse, they'd force us to use several weapon types, placing all the actual "ranger" skills into fewer trees for easier dabbling by others. The only argument that this is a needed change is that we don't excel in PvP. Of course, if you wanted to dominate in PvP, why did you go ranger? I think the added benefits of trapping players is far more useful than combat specials. In PvE, I'm not sure there's much better than Master Ranger. I hunted lvl 82 misisons out of Endor last night and was hit once ONCE out of 6 hours of play.
How? Pretty easy... Master Ranger + Master Pistoleer. Use a nice blend of food and drink and switch off between P. Darts and Adv Stopping Shot while spamming Adv Quick Draw. I do this unarmored so I get the maximum action regen possible.
I also am against lowering the Master Scout prerequisite needed to attain Novice Ranger. As I suggested in my 3rd idea, stop the dabblers and allow Rangers to still capitalize on the hide and meat markets.
Thoughts?
RosaShyanne
Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:19 pm
#2
Actually, I beg to differ. I could just as easily drop em with any other combat profession, I took Pistoleer out of preference. The key to victory is the P Darts, nothing hits you when it moves 1/4 your speed throughout combat. Plain ol Ranged Shot and a few extra traps will work, provided you have more patience. I grinded the whole Pistoleer profession with Master Ranger (was MR/MCH with a little healing and survey).
EDIT: In response to the killing competition, I think you missed the point. I am happy with Ranger and hope that theydo not complete redesign it when it only needsa few minor changes and skill enhancements. Rangers aren't supposed to be killing machines.
Message Edited by RosaShyanne on 09-11-2005 01:38 PM
groundcrew
Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:35 pm
#3
If we are not going to get a revamp then fix our bugs, thats allI can really say.
RosaShyanne wrote:
I sure hope we don't get one. Not to the extreme that SL got. All we need is our bugs fixed and some of our skills altered. Before you all flame, I'm on my 4th Master Ranger toon, and have been playing SWG since release.
My simple solutions to drastically improve Ranger without a complete overhaul:
1. Trapping. At the 2nd skill box for Trapping, a Ranger should be allowed to start using traps on NPC and player characters.
/agree
This would make a huge difference in the GCW giving us a nice support role in PvP combat. Imagine how powerful it would be to deliver 5-6 state effects to multiple players using AoE trapping. Front line combat classes would be able to stop stun, dizzy, blind, snare, attacks as we'd cover all of them, allowing those real PvP professions to do what they do best... dish out the damage. For this to be effective, the speed at which we deliver traps needs to be decreased, almost in half. Also, the state effects from traps should be better than ones from combat specials. Blind, for example, should last twice as long when delivered through a Flash Bomb than it is when applied with a combat special move, not twice as powerful, just last longer.
2. Camping. At Master Ranger, I would like to see the higher end camps comeequipped with a mission terminal and a comm link for shuttle pickup.
Definatly the HTFB should have a /Extraction option
This would actually give meaning to the camps which became useless once vehicles and pets could be called in the wild. Now, if the camps came with a mission terminal, then groups would be encouraged to go places on planets they've never hunted before. Groups would be able to get away from the outposts on Dant, Dath, and Endor and enjoy a little gaming in an unpopulated (and less lagged) part of a planet. Jedi would be eager to group with Rangerssolely for the ability to group grind XP without the high risk for visibilityhunting out of an outpost or player city provides. As for the comm link, what better way to avoid group disasters (and speed up exploration) than to allow the Rangers to have an eject button for the group. It would transport the group to the nearest shuttle port. To allow these ideasto be functional, player camps would need to last 1 full hour AFTER the owner leaves their vacinity, resetting each time the owner returns to the camp. What use is setting up a base of operations if it vanishes each time we move a little to investigate some noise heard over the next hill?? Also, each player would need to be within the camps limits to be transported with the Ranger (we don't want any PvP exploits). Camps also need to stay intact during combat.
3. Creature Harvest. This really needs to move out of the Tracking Tree and into another. Dabblers that only want tracking for BH targets should not be rewarded with harvesting anywhere near the levels of Master Ranger. Also, fix the CA's and AA's for this skill. Creature Harvesting is the primary source of income for the Ranger Profession, the devs should at least put effort into making sure that Master Rangers excell more than dabblers, and allow the skill enhancments to stick.
That's about it !!!! No, I don't think we need combat specials. They would only force our templates toward a certain type of weapon, or even worse, they'd force us to use several weapon types, placing all the actual "ranger" skills into fewer trees for easier dabbling by others.
Idon't know, I'd like to see a +## Ranged / Melee def, and some specials that could be used by both melee and ranged weapons or no weapons at all. A Ranger version of Burst Run would be nice.
The only argument that this is a needed change is that we don't excel in PvP. Of course, if you wanted to dominate in PvP, why did you go ranger? I think the added benefits of trapping players is far more useful than combat specials. In PvE, I'm not sure there's much better than Master Ranger. I hunted lvl 82 misisons out of Endor last night and was hit once ONCE out of 6 hours of play.
How? Pretty easy... Master Ranger + Master Pistoleer. Use a nice blend of food and drink and switch off between P. Darts and Adv Stopping Shot while spamming Adv Quick Draw. I do this unarmored so I get the maximum action regen possible.
I also am against lowering the Master Scout prerequisite needed to attain Novice Ranger. As I suggested in my 3rd idea, stop the dabblers and allow Rangers to still capitalize on the hide and meat markets.
While i don't capitalize and controle the market on meat, hide, or bone, I'm working out deals so i dont have to pay for much (If anything) through a trade system.
Thoughts?
BlueGlowy
Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:03 pm
#4
"Actually, I beg to differ. I could just as easily drop em with any other combat profession, I took Pistoleer out of preference. The key to victory is the P Darts, nothing hits you when it moves 1/4 your speed throughout combat. Plain ol Ranged Shot and a few extra traps will work, provided you have more patience. I grinded the whole Pistoleer profession with Master Ranger (was MR/MCH with a little healing and survey).
EDIT: In response to the killing competition, I think you missed the point. I am happy with Ranger and hope that they do not complete redesign it when it only needs a few minor changes and skill enhancements. Rangers aren't supposed to be killing machines."
--------
I selected pistoleer in my reply to be consistent with the example you provided. Replacing pistols with any other combat profession, excepting perhaps doctor (though I'm not even sure about that), and my point is still made. Restated for clarity, my point is that rangers aren't on par with any other combat profession. You can certainly create a ranger and have fun with it, but I personally want something more than a harvesting bonus. I want to be an effective creature hunter, amongst other things.
Now, if the key to victory is the p-darts, that opens the door for the argument that giving p-darts to any other profession then completely obviates the need for Ranger. While I don't necessarily subscribe to that idea (or want that to be the case), it underscores that the profession needs a bit more than just minor changes and bug-fixes.
Given enough time, I suppose ranged shot works. But the most effective hunters aren't rangers. And I think that is a problem, though I suppose we disagree. In any case, the ideas you presented might be better off if they're in the Pre-Outdoorsman 3, as it would help to consolidate the different views/opinions re: revamp proposals.
[EDITED: Actually, I take back my last statement, and humbly suggest such ideas as presented by the OP and others recently go into the sticky thread linked here:
Ranger Revamp Ideas Sticky Post
Again, this is more for organization and consolidation, and not necessarily to diminish any one author's ideas. Since for every ranger out there, there's probably an equal number of opinions about what the content, role and overall 'flavor' of the profession is supposed to be. In part, this is due to the very nature of the people that are drawn to this profession.]
EDIT: In response to the killing competition, I think you missed the point. I am happy with Ranger and hope that they do not complete redesign it when it only needs a few minor changes and skill enhancements. Rangers aren't supposed to be killing machines."
--------
I selected pistoleer in my reply to be consistent with the example you provided. Replacing pistols with any other combat profession, excepting perhaps doctor (though I'm not even sure about that), and my point is still made. Restated for clarity, my point is that rangers aren't on par with any other combat profession. You can certainly create a ranger and have fun with it, but I personally want something more than a harvesting bonus. I want to be an effective creature hunter, amongst other things.
Now, if the key to victory is the p-darts, that opens the door for the argument that giving p-darts to any other profession then completely obviates the need for Ranger. While I don't necessarily subscribe to that idea (or want that to be the case), it underscores that the profession needs a bit more than just minor changes and bug-fixes.
Given enough time, I suppose ranged shot works. But the most effective hunters aren't rangers. And I think that is a problem, though I suppose we disagree. In any case, the ideas you presented might be better off if they're in the Pre-Outdoorsman 3, as it would help to consolidate the different views/opinions re: revamp proposals.
[EDITED: Actually, I take back my last statement, and humbly suggest such ideas as presented by the OP and others recently go into the sticky thread linked here:
Ranger Revamp Ideas Sticky Post
Again, this is more for organization and consolidation, and not necessarily to diminish any one author's ideas. Since for every ranger out there, there's probably an equal number of opinions about what the content, role and overall 'flavor' of the profession is supposed to be. In part, this is due to the very nature of the people that are drawn to this profession.]
Message Edited by BlueGlowy on 09-11-200505:40 PM
Message Edited by BlueGlowy on 09-11-2005 05:41 PM
Owen-Lars
Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:07 pm
#5
Each to their own i guess 
I dont think fixing bugs and tweaking things to ranger would solve a problem i believe is at its roots.
Sure it would make it better to play but we would still be clutching at straws. Like i said, each to their own but personally im counting on a revamp and nothing less will do.
Serraphin
Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:04 pm
#6
I honestly think we may never see Ranger traps effect NPCs or Players because of the present Creature Centric focus we have and the NPC/Player focus BH has and yes I understand BHs cn use their abilities on creatures (I think we have well established that) But I do think the devs may be hesitant to enter what they see as the BH realm by giving us the ability to trap Bipeds.
Serraphin
Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:17 pm
#7
Stopping Shot > P Dart. Also I beg to differ a Master Pistoleer + 0400 Carbineer will alternate between stopping shot, crippling shot and never miss a P Dart.The P dart is wonderful but it is not uber ( well not anaymore at least) and it is easily replaced by other specials available to many professions. Now Stopping shot will become even more wonderful with the new SL ability to reduce cool down timers.
RosaShyanne wrote:
Actually, I beg to differ. I could just as easily drop em with any other combat profession, I took Pistoleer out of preference. The key to victory is the P Darts, nothing hits you when it moves 1/4 your speed throughout combat. Plain ol Ranged Shot and a few extra traps will work, provided you have more patience. I grinded the whole Pistoleer profession with Master Ranger (was MR/MCH with a little healing and survey).
EDIT: In response to the killing competition, I think you missed the point. I am happy with Ranger and hope that theydo not complete redesign it when it only needsa few minor changes and skill enhancements. Rangers aren't supposed to be killing machines.
Message Edited by RosaShyanne on 09-11-2005 01:38 PM
BlueGlowy
Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:45 am
#8
Just a thought...it wasn't the master ranger aspect of your template that allows you to excel against L82 creatures. It was your master pistoleer ability. I'd challenge any Master Ranger to compete against a Master Pistoleer in hunting creatures to see which one has an easier job of it. If this doesn't make sense to anyone, what I mean is... build a CL54 master ranger. And build a CL54 pistoleer or something. Go hunt CL54 creatures. The pistoleer will excel at killing the creature. The ranger will excel at gathering the hides.
And the CL54 pistoleer will have that same advantage regardless of whether you are hunting creatures, NPCs, or players. Actually, the advantage will grow in each of the non-creature categories.
If the competition were expanded to include full build templates up to CL80, then I'd put a master (ranged weapon) + ranger + leftover points into *anything* (like CM4000 or even basic artisan) up against a master ranger + master ranged weapon. Again, the non-ranger will kill creatures more effectively (quickly) even to the point of diminishing the harvesting bonus a ranger gets...simply because over a given time span, the non-ranger will have killed more creatures.
And the CL54 pistoleer will have that same advantage regardless of whether you are hunting creatures, NPCs, or players. Actually, the advantage will grow in each of the non-creature categories.
If the competition were expanded to include full build templates up to CL80, then I'd put a master (ranged weapon) + ranger + leftover points into *anything* (like CM4000 or even basic artisan) up against a master ranger + master ranged weapon. Again, the non-ranger will kill creatures more effectively (quickly) even to the point of diminishing the harvesting bonus a ranger gets...simply because over a given time span, the non-ranger will have killed more creatures.
Message Edited by BlueGlowy on 09-11-2005 03:52 PM
Almagill
Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:28 am
#9
Owen-Lars wrote:Each to their own i guessI dont think fixing bugs and tweaking things to ranger would solve a problem i believe is at its roots.Sure it would make it better to play but we would still be clutching at straws. Like i said, each to their own but personally im counting on a revamp and nothing less will do.
Needs taking down to the ground and rebuilding. Pretty much anything else is just bolting on some ply here, slapping on some paint there and just hoping that it doesn't fall apart...
Oh, no, thats' my garden shed I'm thinking of.
or is it... hmmm
Phenix1050
Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:41 am
#10
well, we'lll just pound a few nails into your shins and throw a bucket of paint on you and then fix Ranger and call it even.
Almagill wrote:
Needs taking down to the ground and rebuilding. Pretty much anything else is just bolting on some ply here, slapping on some paint there and just hoping that it doesn't fall apart...
Oh, no, thats' my garden shed I'm thinking of.
or is it... hmmm
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